Talks mar 35

611

Talk 618. 

A gentleman from Hardwar: When I go on analysing myself I go beyond the intellect, and then there is no happiness. 

M.: Intellect is only an instrument of the Self. It cannot help you to know what is beyond itself. 

D.: I understand it. But there is no happiness beyond it. 

M.: The intellect is the instrument wherewith to know unknown things. 

But you are already known, being the Self which is itself knowledge; so you do not become the object of knowledge. 

The intellect makes you see things outside, and not that which is its own source. 

D.: The question is repeated. 

M.: The intellect is useful thus far, it helps you to analyse yourself, and no further. 

It must then be merged into the ego, and the source of the ego must be sought. 

If that be done the ego disappears. Remain as that source and then the ego does not arise 

D.: There is no happiness in that state. 

M.: ‘There is no happiness’ is only a thought. 

The Self is bliss, pure and simple. You are the Self. So you cannot but be bliss; being so, you cannot say here is no happiness. 

That which says so cannot be the Self; it is the non-Self and must be got rid of in order to realise the bliss of the Self. 

D.: How is that to be done?  

M.: See where from the thought arises. It is the mind. See for whom the mind or intellect functions. For the ego. 

Merge the intellect in the ego and seek the source of the ego. The ego disappears. ‘I know’ and ‘I do not know’ imply a subject and an object. 

They are due to duality. 

The Self is pure and absolute, One and alone. 

There are no two selves so that one may know the other. 

What is duality then? It cannot be the Self which is One and alone. 

It must be non-Self. 

Duality is the characteristic of the ego. 

When thoughts arise duality is present; know it to be the ego, and seek its source.

 The degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of your progress towards Self-Realisation.

 But Self-Realisation itself does not admit of progress; it is ever the same. The Self remains always in realisation. 

The obstacles are thoughts. Progress is measured by the degree of removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realised. 

So thoughts must be checked by seeking to whom they arise. So you go to their Source, where they do not arise. 

D.: Doubts are always arising. Hence my question. 

M.: A doubt arises and is cleared; another arises and that is cleared, making way for another, and so it goes on. So there is no possibility of clearing away all doubts. See to whom the doubts arise. Go to their source and abide in it. Then they cease to arise. That is how doubts are to be cleared. 

Atma samstham manah krtva na kinchidapi chintayet. 

D.: Grace alone can help me to it. 

M.: Grace is not exterior. In fact your very desire for grace is due to grace that is already in you.

....

D.: But hatha yoga is so much spoken of as an aid. 

M.: Yes. Even great pandits well versed in the Vedanta continue the practice of it. Otherwise their minds will not subside. So you may say it is useful for those who cannot otherwise still the mind. 

D.: Saguna upasana (worship of the personal God) is said to be imperfect. It is also said that nirguna upasana (devotion to the impersonal) is hard and risky. I am fit for the former only. What is to be done? 

M.: The Saguna merges into the nirguna in the long run. The saguna purifies the mind and takes one to the final goal. The afflicted one, the seeker of knowledge, and the seeker of gains are all dear to God. But the Jnani is the Self of God.

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615

M.: So long as you think that Krishna is different from you, you call upon Him. Falling into trance denotes the transitoriness of the samadhi. 

You are always in samadhi. That is what should be realised.

........

D.: God-vision is glorious. 

M.: God-vision is only vision of the Self objectified as the God of one’s own faith. Know the Self.

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 Talk 624. 

A devotee asked Sri Bhagavan: With every thought the subject and the object appear and disappear. Does not the ‘I’ disappear when the subject disappears thus? If that be so how can the quest of the ‘I’ proceed? 

M.: The subject (knower) is only a mode of mind. Though the mode (vritti) passes, the reality behind it does not cease. The background of the mode is the ‘I’ in which the mind modes arise and sink. 

D.: After describing the Self as srota (hearer), manta (thinker), vijnata (knower), etc., it is again described as asrota, amanta, avijnata, non-hearer, non-thinker, non-knower, Is it so? 

M.: Just so. The common man is aware of himself only when modifications arise in the intellect (vijnanamaya kosa); these modifications are transient; they arise and set. Hence the vijnanamaya (intellect) is called a kosa or sheath. 

When pure awareness is left over it is itself the Chit (Self) or the Supreme. 

To be in one’s natural state on the subsidence of thoughts is bliss. 

If that bliss be transient - arising and setting - then it is only the sheath of bliss (Anandamaya kosa), not the pure Self. 

What is needed is to fix the attention on the pure ‘I’ after the subsidence of all thoughts and not to lose hold of it. 

This has to be described as an extremely subtle thought; else it cannot be spoken of at all, since it is no other than the Real Self. 

Who is to speak of it, to whom and how? 

 This is well explained in the Kaivalyam and the Viveka Chudamani. 

Thus though in sleep the awareness of the Self is not lost, the ignorance of the jiva is not affected by it. 

For this ignorance to be destroyed this subtle state of mind (vritti jnanam) is necessary. 

In the sunshine cotton does not burn; but if the cotton be placed under a lens it catches fire and is consumed by the rays of the Sun passing through the lens. 

So too, though the awareness of the Self is present at all times, it is not inimical to ignorance. 

If by meditation the subtle state of thought is won, then ignorance is destroyed. 

Also in Viveka Chudamani: ativa sukshmam paramatma tattvam na sthoola drishtya (the exceedingly subtle Supreme Self cannot be seen by the gross eye) and esha svayam jyotirasesha sakshi (this is Self-shining and witnesses all). 

This subtle mental state is not a modification of mind called vritti. 

Because the mental states are of two kinds. One is the natural state and the other is a transformation into forms of objects. 

The first is the truth, and the other is according to the doer (kartru-tantra). 

When the latter perishes, jale kataka renuvat (like the clearing nut paste in water),

 the former will remain over. The means for this end is meditation.

  Though this is with the triad of distinction (triputi), it will finally end in pure awareness (jnanam) 

Meditation needs effort: jnanam is effortless.

 Meditation can be done, or not done, or wrongly done, jnanam is not so.

 Meditation is described as kartru-tantra (as doer’s own), jnanam as vastu-tantra (the Supreme’s own). 

..........

Talk 625.

 Miss Merston, an English lady visitor: I have read Who am I? While inquiring who the ‘I’ is, I cannot hold it for any length of time. Secondly, I have no interest in the environment, but yet I have hopes that I shall find some interest in life. 

M.: If there are no interests it is good. (The interpreter points out that the questioner hopes to find some interest in life). 

M.: That means there are those vasanas. A dreamer dreams a dream. He sees the dream world with pleasures, pains. etc. But he wakes up and then loses all interest in the dream world. So it is with the  waking world also. Just as the dream-world, being only a part of yourself and not different from you, ceases to interest you, so also the present world would cease to interest you if you awake from this waking dream (samsara) and realise that it is a part of your Self, and not an objective reality. Because you think that you are apart from the objects around you, you desire a thing. But if you understand that the thing was only a thought-form you would no longer desire it. All things are like bubbles on water. You are the water and the objects are the bubbles. They cannot exist apart from the water, but they are not quite the same as the water. 

D.: I feel I am like froth. 

M.: Cease that identification with the unreal and know your real identity. Then you will be firm and no doubts can arise. 

D.: But I am the froth. 

M.: Because you think that way there is worry. It is a wrong imagination. Accept your true identity with the Real. 

Be the water and not the froth. That is done by diving in.

D.: If I dive in, I shall find........ 

M.: But even without diving in, you are That. The ideas of exterior and interior exist only so long as you do not accept your real identity. 

D.: But I took the idea from you that you want me to dive in. 

M.: Yes, quite right. It was said because you are identifying yourself with the froth and not the water. 

Because of this confusion the answer was meant to draw your attention to this confusion and bring it home to you. 

All that is meant is that the Self is infinite inclusive of all that you see. 

There is nothing beyond It nor apart from It.

 Knowing this, you will not desire anything; not desiring, you will be content. 

The Self is always realised. 

There is no seeking to realise what is already - always - realised. 

For you cannot deny your own existence. 

That existence is consciousness - the Self. 

Unless you exist you cannot ask questions. So you must admit your own existence. That existence is the Self. It is already realised. 

Therefore the effort to realise results only in your realising your present mistake - that you have not realised your Self. There is no fresh realisation. The Self becomes revealed. 

D.: That will take some years. 

M.: Why years? 

The idea of time is only in your mind. It is not in the Self. There is no time for the Self. 

Time arises as an idea after the ego arises. 

But you are the Self beyond time and space; you exist even in the absence of time and space.

Talk 626. 

Another devotee: Is it not that the ‘I’ exists only in relation to a ‘this’ (aham - idam)? 

M.: ‘I’, ‘this’ appear together now. But ‘this’ is contained (vyaptam) in the ‘I’ - they are not apart.

 ‘This’ has to merge into and become one with ‘I’. The ‘I’ that remains over is the true ‘I’.

......

Talk 629. 

This is Sivaratri day. Sri Bhagavan was beaming with Grace in the evening. A Sadhaka raised the following question: 

D.: Enquiry into the Self seems to take one into the subtle body (ativahika sariram or puriashtakam or jivatma). Am I right? 

M.: They are different names for the same state, but they are used according to the different points of view. 

After some time puriashtakam (the eight fold subtle body) will disappear and there will be the ‘Eka’ (one) only. 

Vritti jnana alone can destroy ‘ajnana’ (ignorance). 

Absolute jnana is not inimical to ajnana. 

There are two kinds of vrittis (modes of mind). 

(1) vishaya vritti (objective) and 

(2) atma vritti (subjective). 

The first must give place to the second. 

That is the aim of abhyasa (practice), 

which takes one first to the puriashtaka and then to the One Self.

.....

Talk 631. 

The Sadhaka repeated his question in a different way: 

D.: The enquiry into the Self seems to lead to the ativahika, the puriashtaka or the jivatma. Is it right? 

M.: Yes. It is called ‘sarira’ (body or abode, city or individual, puri or jiva according to the outlook). They are the same.  

Vritti-jnanam is usually associated with objective phenomena. When these cease there remains the atma-vritti or the subjective vritti that is the same as jnanam. 

Without it ajnanam will not cease. 

The puriashtaka also will not be found associated with anything outside, and the Self will shine forth uniform and harmonious

........

Talk 633. 

A visitor from Dindigul said: I suffer in both mind and body. From the day of my birth I have never had happiness. My mother too suffered from the time she conceived me, I hear. Why do I suffer thus? I have not sinned in this life. Is all this due to the sins of past lives? 

M.: If there should be unrelieved suffering all the time, who would seek happiness? That is, if suffering be the natural state, how can the desire to be happy arise at all? However the desire does arise. So to be happy is natural; all else is unnatural. Suffering is not desired, only because it comes and goes. The questioner repeated his complaint. 

M.: You say the mind and body suffer. But do they ask the questions? Who is the questioner? Is it not the one that is beyond both mind and body? You say the body suffers in this life; the cause of this is the previous life: its cause is the one before it, and so on. So, like the case of the seed and the sprout, there is no end to the causal series. It has to be said that all the lives have their first cause in ignorance. 

That same ignorance is present even now, framing this question. That ignorance must be removed by jnanam.

 “Why and to whom did this suffering come?” 

If you question thus you will find that the ‘I’ is separate from the mind and body.

 That the Self is the only eternal being, 

And that It is eternal bliss. 

That is dnyana. 

.........

D.: But why should there be suffering now? 

M.: If there were no suffering how could the desire to be happy arise? If that desire did not arise how would the Quest of the Self be successful? 

D.: Then is all suffering good? 

M.: Quite so. What is happiness? Is it a healthy and handsome body, timely meals, and the like? Even an emperor has troubles without end though he may be healthy. 

So all suffering is due to the false notion “I am the body”. Getting rid of it is jnanam.

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Talk 634. 

An Andhra gentleman, retired from Government Service, asked: “I have been doing omkara upasana for long. In the left ear I am always hearing a sound. It is like the piping of a nadasvaram (pipe). Even now I hear it. Some luminous visions are also seen. I do not know what I should do.” 

M.: There must be one to hear sounds or see visions. That one is the ‘I’. 

If you seek it, asking “Who am I?” the subject and objects would coalesce. 

After that there is no quest. Till then thought will arise, things will appear and disappear; you ask yourself what has happened, and what will happen. If the subject be known then the objects will merge in the subject. If without that knowledge, one applies the mind to objects, because these objects appear and disappear, and one does not know that one’s true nature is that which remains over as the Self. On the vanishing of objects, fear arises. That is, the mind being bound to objects there is suffering when the objects are absent. But they are transient and the Self is eternal. If the eternal Self be known subject and object merge into one, and the One without a second will shine. 

D.: Is there the merger of the Omkara? 

M.: Om is the eternal truth. 

That which remains over after the disappearance of objects is Om. 

It does not merge in anything. It is the State of which it is said: “Where one sees none other, hears none other, knows none other, that is Perfection.” 

Yatra nanyat pasyati, nanyat srunoti, nanyat vijanati sa bhuma? 

All the upasanas are ways to winning it. One must not get stuck in the upasanas, but must query “Who am I?” and find the Self. 

D.: I have no pleasure in the house. There remains nothing for me to do in the family. I have finished doing what I had to do. Now there are grandsons and granddaughters. May I remain in the house, or should I leave it and go away? 

M.: You should stay just where you are now. But where are you now? Are you in the house, or is the house in you? Is there any house apart from you? If you get fixed in your own place, you will see all things have merged into you, and there will be no cause for such questions as these. 

D.: Yes. Then it seems as if I may remain at home. 

M.: You must remain in your real state.

Talk 642. 

Mr. K. L. Sarma asked: Svasvarupanusandhanam bhaktirityabhidhiyate. Again - Svatmatattvanusadhanam bhaktirityapare joguh. What is the difference between the two? 

M.: The former is vichara - Who am I? (Koham?) It represents jnana. 

The latter is dhyana - Whence am I? (Kutoham?) 

This admits a jivatma which seeks the Paramatma.

.......

633

General remarks by Sri Bhagavan: All knowledge is meant only to lead the person to the realisation of the Self. The scriptures or religions are well-known to be for  that purpose. What do they all mean? Leave alone what they say of the past or of the future; for it is only speculative. 

But the present existence is within the experience of all. Realise the pure Being. There is an end to all discourses and disputes. But the intellect of man does not easily take to this course.

  It is only rarely that a man becomes introverted. 

The intellect delights in investigating the past and the future but does not look to the present. 

D.: Because it must lose itself if it sank within in search of the Self. But the other investigation gives it not only a lease of life but also food for growth. 

M.: Yes. Quite so. Why is intellect developed? It has a purpose. The purpose is that it should show the way to realise the Self. It must be put to that use.

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636

D.: But Chudala says to Sikhidhvaja that she simply helped to trim the wick. 

M.: That refers to nididhyasana. By sravana, Knowledge dawns. That is the flame. By manana, the Knowledge is not allowed to vanish. Just as the flame is protected by a wind-screen, so the other thoughts are not allowed to overwhelm the right knowledge. 

By nididhyasana, the flame is kept up to burn bright by trimming the wick. Whenever other thoughts arise, the mind is turned inward to the light of true knowledge. When this becomes natural, it is samadhi. The enquiry “Who am I?” is the sravana. The ascertainment of the true import of ‘I’ is the manana. The practical application on each occasion is nididhyasana. Being as ‘I’ is samadhi.

........

D.: Although we have heard it so often and so constantly yet we are unable to put the teaching into practise successfully. It must be due to weakness of mind. Is it possible that one’s age is a bar? 

M.: The mind is commonly said to be strong if it can think furiously. But here the mind is strong if it is free from thoughts. The yogis say that realisation can be had only before the age of thirty, but not the jnanis. 

For jnana does not cease to exist with age. It is true that in the Yoga Vasishta, Vasishta says to Rama in the Vairagya Prakarana “You have this dispassion in your youth. It is admirable.” But he did not say that jnana cannot be had in old age. There is nothing to prevent it in old age. 

The sadhak must remain as the Self. 

If he cannot do so, he must ascertain the true meaning of the ‘I’ and constantly revert to it whenever other thoughts arise. 

That is the practice. 

Some say that one must know the ‘tat’ because the idea of the world constantly arises to deflect the mind. If the Reality behind it is first ascertained it will be found to be Brahman. The ‘tvam’ is understood later. It is the jiva. Finally there will be jivabrahmaikya (union of the two). But why all this? Can the world exist apart from the Self? The ‘I’ is always Brahman. Its identity need not be established by logic and practice. It is enough that one realises the Self. It is always the Brahman. According to the other school, nididhyasana will be the thought Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman). That is diversion of thought to Brahman. 

No diversion should be allowed. Know the Self and there is an end of it. No long process is necessary to know the Self.

 Is it to be pointed out by another? Does not everyone know that he exists? Even in utter darkness when he cannot see his hand, he answers a call and says “I am here”.

........

D.: But that ‘I’ is the ego or the ‘I-thought’ and it is not the Absolute Self that answers the call or is otherwise aware of oneself. 

M.: Even the ego can become aware of itself in the absence of light, sight, etc. Much more so should be the Pure Light of the Self. 

I am saying that the Self is self-evident. 

One need not discuss the tattvas to find the Self. 

Some say there are twenty-four tattvas, others more and so on. 

Should we know the tattvas, before we admit the existence of the Self?

 The sastras dilate upon them in order to  point out that the Self is untouched by them. 

But for the seeker he can straightaway admit the Self and try to be That, without having recourse to the study of the tattvas.

.......

D.: Gandhiji adhered to satya (Truth) so long and won realisation of the Self. 

M.: What is satya except the Self? 

Satya is that which is made up of sat. Again sat is nothing but the Self. 

So Gandhiji’s satya is only the Self. Each one knows the Self but is yet ignorant. The person is enabled to realise only after hearing the mahavakya. Hence the Upanishadic text is the eternal Truth to which everyone who has realised owes his experience. 

After hearing the Self to be the Brahman the person finds the true import of the Self and reverts to it whenever he is diverted from it. This is the whole process of Realisation.

...............

M.: The Gita says: Brahmano hi pratishtaham. If that ‘aham’ is known, the whole is known.

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Talk 650. 

An Andhra gentleman of middle age asked Sri Bhagavan how he should make his japa. 

M.: The japa contains the word namah. It means that state in which the mind does not manifest apart from the Self. When the state is accomplished there will be an end of the japa. For the doer disappears and so also the action. The Eternal Being is alone left. Japa should be made until that state is reached. There is no escape from the Self. The doer will be automatically drawn into it. When once it is done the man cannot do anything else but remain merged in the Self.

.......

D.: Will bhakti lead to mukti? 

M.: Bhakti is not different from mukti. Bhakti is being as the Self (Swarupa). One is always that. He realises it by the means he adopts. What is bhakti? To think of God. That means: only one thought prevails to the exclusion of all other thoughts. That thought is of God which is the Self or it is the Self surrendered unto God. When He has taken you up nothing will assail you. The absence of thoughts is bhakti. It is also mukti. The jnana method is said to be vichara (enquiry). That is nothing but ‘supreme devotion’ (parabhakti). The difference is in words only. You think that bhakti is meditation on the Supreme Being. So long as there is vibhakti (the sense of separateness), bhakti (reunion)  is sought. 

The process will lead to the ultimate goal as is said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita: arto jignasuh artharthi jnani cha Bharatarshabha tesham jnani nityayukta ekabhaktir visishyate — Ch. VII (l6, 17). Any kind of meditation is good. But if the sense of separateness is lost and the object of meditation or the subject who meditates is alone left behind without anything else to know, it is jnana. Jnana is said to be ekabhakti (single-minded devotion). The Jnani is the finality because he has become the Self and there is nothing more to do. He is also perfect and so fearless, dwitiyat vai bhayam bhavati - only the existence of a second gives rise to fear. This is mukti. It is also bhakti.

D.: This can be realised only by the Grace of the master. I was reading Sri Bhagavata; it says that Bliss can be had only by the dust of the Master’s feet. I pray for Grace. 

M.: What is Bliss but your own being? 

You are not apart from Being which is the same as Bliss. 

You are now thinking that you are the mind or the body which are both changing and transient. But you are unchanging and eternal. That is what you should know.

.......

D.: We are told to practise indifference (udasina) which is possible only if the world is unreal. 

M.: Yes. Oudasinyam abhipsitam. Indifference is advised. But what is it? It is absence of love and hatred. When you realise the Self on which these phenomena pass, will you love or hate them? That is the meaning of indifference. 

D.: That will lead to want of interest in our work. Should we do our duty or not? 

M.: Yes - certainly. Even if you try not to do your duty you will be perforce obliged to do it. Let the body complete the task for which it came into being. Sri Krishna also says in the Gita, whether Arjuna liked it or not he would be forced to fight. When there is work to be done by you, you cannot keep away; nor can you continue to do a thing when you are not required to do it, that is to say, when the work allotted to you has been done. In short, the work will go on and you must take your share in it - the share which is allotted to you. 

D.: How is it to be done? 

M.: Like an actor playing his part in a drama - free from love or hatred.

......................645    ...............end of Talks..............................................