Talks mar 26

452

Talk 451. 

Mr. S. S. Suryanarayana Sastri, Reader in Philosophy, Madras University, arrived this night. He had a doubt which he said had been cleared on reading Sarma’s commentary on “Knowledge of Self”. 

The doubt was: How can the world be an imagination or a thought? Thought is a function of the mind. The mind is located in the brain. The brain is within the skull of a human being, who is only an infinitesimal part of the universe. How then can the universe be contained in the cells of the brain? 

Sri Bhagavan answered saying: 

So long as the mind is considered to be an entity of the kind described, the doubt will persist. 

But what is mind? Let us consider. 

The world is seen when the man wakes up from sleep. It comes after the ‘I-thought’. The head rises up. So the mind has become active. What is the world? It is objects spread out in space. Who comprehends it? The mind. Is not the mind, which comprehends space, itself space (akasa)? 

The space is physical ether (bhootakasa). The mind is mental ether (manakasa) which is contained in transcendental ether (chidakasa). The mind is thus the ether principle, akasa tattva. Being the principle of knowledge (jnana sattva), it is identified with ether (akasa) by metaphysics. Considering it to be ether (akasa), there will be no difficulty in reconciling the apparent contradiction in the question. Pure mind (suddha manas) is ether (akasa). The dynamic and dull (rajas and tamas) aspects operate as gross objects, etc. Thus the whole universe is only mental. Again, consider a man who dreams. He goes to sleep in a room with doors closed so that nothing can intrude on him while asleep. He closes his eyes when sleeping so that he does not see any object. Yet when he dreams he sees a whole region in which people live and move about with himself among them. Did this panorama get in through the doors? It was simply unfolded to him by his brain. Is it the sleeper’s brain or in the brain of the dream individual? It is in the sleeper’s brain. How does it hold this vast country in its tiny cells? This must explain the oft-repeated statement that the whole universe is a mere thought or a series of thoughts.

Talk 452. 

Mr. Dhar, I. C. S., a high Officer and his wife, both young, highly cultured and intelligent, are on a visit here. But they fell ill since they arrived here. She desired to know how meditation could become steady. 

M.: What is meditation? It consists in expulsion of thoughts. All the present troubles are due to thoughts and are themselves thoughts. Give up thoughts. That is happiness and also meditation. 

D.: How are thoughts given up? 

M.: The thoughts are for the thinker. Remain as the Self of the thinker and there is an end of thoughts. 

Mr. Dhar asked Sri Bhagavan why Brahma, who is Perfection, creates and puts us to ordeals for regaining Him. 

M.: Where is the individual who asks this question? He is in the universe and included in the creation. How does he raise the question when he is bound in the creation? He must go beyond it and see if any question arises then.

D.: What should one think of when meditating? 

M.: What is meditation? It is expulsion of thoughts. You are perturbed by thoughts which rush one after another. Hold on to one thought so that others are expelled. 

Continuous practice gives the necessary strength of mind to engage in meditation. 

Meditation differs according to the degree of advancement of the seeker. 

If one is fit for it one might directly hold the thinker;

 and the thinker will automatically sink into his source, namely Pure Consciousness. 

If one cannot directly hold the thinker one must meditate on God; 

and in due course the same individual will have become sufficiently pure to hold the thinker and sink into absolute Being

One of the ladies was not satisfied with this answer and asked for further elucidation. 

Sri Bhagavan then pointed out that to see wrong in another is one’s own wrong. The discrimination between right and wrong is the origin of the sin. One’s own sin is reflected outside and the individual in ignorance superimposes it on another. The best course for one is to reach the state in which such discrimination does not arise. Do you see wrong or right in your sleep?

 Did you not exist in sleep? Be asleep even in the wakeful state. 

Abide as the Self and remain uncontaminated by what goes on around. 

Moreover, however much you might advise them, your hearers may not rectify themselves. Be in the right yourself and remain silent. Your silence will have more effect than your words or deeds. That is the development of will-power. Then the world becomes the Kingdom of Heaven, which is within you. 

D.: If one is to withdraw oneself, why is there the world? 

M.: Where is the world and where does one go withdrawing oneself? Does one fly in an aeroplane beyond space? Is it withdrawal? 

The fact is this: the world is only an idea. 

What do you say: Are you within the world or is the world within you? 

D.: I am in the world. I am part of it. 

M.: That is the mistake. If the world were to exist apart from you, does it come and tell you that it exists? No, you see it exists. You see it when you are awake and not when asleep. If it exists apart from you, it must tell you so and you must be aware of it even in your sleep. 

D.: I became aware of it in my jagrat. 

M.: Do you become aware of yourself and then of the world? Or do you become aware of the world and then of yourself? Or do you become aware of both simultaneously? 

D.: I must say simultaneously. 

M.: Were you or were you not, before becoming aware of yourself? 

Do you admit your continued existence before and when you become aware of the world? 

D.: Yes.

M.: If always existing yourself, why are you not aware of the world in sleep if it exists apart from the Self? 

D.: I become aware of myself and of the world also. 

M.: So you become aware of yourself. Who becomes aware of whom? Are there two selves? 

D.: No. 

M.: So you see that it is wrong to suppose that awareness has passing phases. 

The Self is always aware. 

When the Self identifies itself as the seer it sees objects. 

The creation of the subject and the object is the creation of the world. 

Subjects and objects are creations in Pure Consciousness. 

You see pictures moving on the screen in a cinema show. When you are intent on the pictures you are not aware of the screen. But the pictures cannot be seen without the screen behind. The world stands for the pictures and Consciousness stands for the screen. The Consciousness is pure. It is the same as the Self which is eternal and unchanging. Get rid of the subject and object and Pure Consciousness will alone remain. 

D.: But why did Pure Brahman become Isvara and manifest the universe if He did not mean it? 

M.: Did Brahman or Isvara tell you so? You say that Brahman became Isvara, and so on. This too you did not say in your sleep. Only in your jagrat state you speak of Brahman, Isvara and universe. The jagrat state is a duality of subject and object - owing to the rise of thoughts. So they are your thought creations. 

D.: But the world exists in my sleep even though I am not aware. 

M.: What is the proof of its existence?

 D.: Others are aware of it. 

M.: Do they say so to you when you are in sleep or do you become aware of others who see the world in your sleep? 

D.: No, but God is always aware. 

M.: Leave God alone. Speak for yourself. You do not know God. He is only what you think of Him. Is he apart from you? He is that Pure Consciousness in which all ideas are formed. You are that Consciousness.

Talk 454. 

Mrs. Dhar: Sri Bhagavan advises practice of enquiry even when one is engaged in external activities. The finality of such enquiry is the realisation of the Self and consequently breath must stop. If breath should stop, how will work go on or, in other words, how will breath stop when one is working? 

M.: There is confusion between the means and the end (i.e. sadhana and sadhya). Who is the enquirer? The aspirant and not the siddha. Enquiry signifies that the enquirer considers himself separate from enquiry. So long as this duality lasts the enquiry must be continued, i.e., until the individuality disappears and the Self is realised to be only the eternal Be-ing (including enquiry and enquirer). 

The Truth is that Self is constant and unintermittent Awareness. 

The object of enquiry is to find the true nature of the Self as Awareness. 

Let one practise enquiry so long as separateness is perceived.

If once realisation arises there is no further need for enquiry. 

The question will also not arise. Can awareness ever think of questioning who is aware? 

Awareness remains pure and simple. 

The enquirer is aware of his own individuality. 

Enquiry does not stand in the way of his individual awareness; nor does external work interfere with such awareness. 

If work, seemingly external, does not obstruct the individual awareness, will the work, realised to be not separate from the Self, obstruct the uninterrupted Awareness of the Self, which is One without a second and which is not an individual separate from work?

Talk 455. 

Mrs. Dhar: I form part of the creation and so remain dependent. I cannot solve the riddle until I become independent. Yet I ask Sri Bhagavan, should He not answer the question for me? 

M.: Yes. It is Bhagavan that says, “Become independent and solve the riddle yourself. It is for you to do it.” Again: where are you now that you ask this question? Are you in the world, or is the world within you? 

You must admit that the world is not perceived in your sleep although you cannot deny your existence then. The world appears when you wake up. So where is it? Clearly the world is your thought. Thoughts are your projections. 

The ‘I’ is first created and then the world. The world is created by the ‘I’ which in its turn rises up from the Self. The riddle of the creation of the world is thus solved if you solve the creation of the ‘I’.

 So I say, find your Self. Again, does the world come and ask you “Why do ‘I’ exist? How was ‘I’ created?” 

It is you who ask the question. The questioner must establish the relationship between the world and himself. He must admit that the world is his own imagination. Who imagines it? Let him again find the ‘I’ and then the Self. Moreover, all the scientific and theological explanations do not harmonise. The diversities in such theories clearly show the uselessness of seeking such explanations. Such explanations are purely mental or intellectual and nothing more. Still, all of them are true according to the standpoint of the individual. There is no creation in the state of realisation. 

When one sees the world, one does not see oneself. 

When one sees the Self, the world is not seen. 

So see the Self and realise that there has been no creation. The lady being laid up is unable to go to the hall and so feels unhappy that, though near, she cannot go into the hall. This was mentioned to Sri Bhagavan. 

He said, “Well, thinking like this keeps her always in the Presence. This is better than remaining in the hall and thinking of something else.”

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458 contact with saints ..swami ramdas etc pls read

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11th February, 1938 Talk 456. 

 “Seek the company of saints by all means; but do not remain indefinitely with them. The adage, familiarity breeds contempt, applies even to their case,” writes Swami Ramdas in the course of an article in The Vision. “Spiritual growth is, no doubt, largely dependent on suitable association. Company of saints is, therefore, held to be essential for a seeker after truth. But it must not be understood by the company of saints to mean that the seeker should permanently stick on to them. “He may, for a brief period, remain in their contact and, thereby drawing inspiration and guidance, get himself thoroughly awakened to the consciousness of the indwelling Reality. It would be well for him to depart from them before the light and inspiration that he has received diminishes or disappears. 

May turn scoffers: “There are many cases known to the writer and many others of which he has heard and read, in which such continued dwelling in the company of saints has not only cooled down the ardour and aspiration of the seekers but also turned them into scoffers and sceptics. The fall of a sadhak from faith, purity and aspiration does him incalculable harm. “A young plant growing beneath the shade of a full-grown giant tree does not develop strength and stature. Its growth will be dwarfed, shrivelled and diseased. Whereas if the same plant were put into the open ground directly exposed to the storms, heat, cold, and other rigours of changing weather, it is bound to grow into a mighty tree drawing sustenance both from above and below. 

Stifled growth: “This analogy of the plant aptly illustrates the stunted life of a seeker who is attached merely to the outward personality of a saint and spends all his days in close association with him. Here the initiative for a free expression of his unique spiritual possibilities is stifled. He fails to cultivate the fundamental qualities for his advancement - fearlessness, self-dependence and endurance. The one great Guide that should control his mind, speech and body should be the almighty Spirit within him. To surrender to this Spirit and become its very embodiment is his goal. To stand on his own legs, struggle and grow by his own strength and experience and lastly to hand himself over to God by his own endeavour brings true liberation and peace. “From what has been said above, it must not be construed that reflection is cast upon the greatness and efficacy of the company of  God-realised souls. 

Such a contact is the most effective means for a rapid spiritual evolution of the soul. 

In fact, the grace of saints is an invaluable aid for sadhana and without it the condition of the aspirant is like a bird beating in vain its wings against the bars of the cage for freedom. 

Saints are the saviours and liberators. 

The Hindu conception of a saint is that he is the very embodiment of God himself. So honour him, derive the rare benefit of his society, serve him with a frank and pure heart, listen intently to his words of advice, and strive to act up to them and achieve the fullest knowledge of the Truth you are in quest of. But seek not to remain attached to his person and lose the spiritual gifts you obtained from him by first contacts.” This cutting was read out to Sri Bhagavan. He listened and remained silent. He was requested to say if contact with saints could be a danger. 

Sri Bhagavan then quoted a Tamil stanza which says that contact with Guru should be kept up till videhamukti (being disembodied). 

Again he asked where is the Satpurusha? He is within. Then he quoted another stanza meaning: “O Master, Who has been within me in all my past incarnations and Who manifested as a human being, only to speak the language understood by me and lead me.”

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461

Happiness is not to be sought in solitude or in busy centres. It is in the Self.

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Talk 460. 

Observing the moon before the rising sun, Sri Bhagavan remarked: See the moon and also the cloud in the sky. There is no difference in their brilliance. The moon looks only like a speck of cloud. The jnani’s mind is like this moon before sunlight. It is there but not shining of itself.

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Here I find people obtaining peace by meditation in the hall; whereas I am not blessed with such peace. This itself has a depressing effect on me. 

M.: This thought, ‘I am not able to concentrate,’ is itself an obstacle. Why should the thought arise? 

D.: Can one remain without thoughts rising all the 24 hours of the day? Should I remain without meditation? 

M.: What is ‘hours’ again? It is a concept. Each question of yours is prompted by a thought. Your nature is Peace and Happiness. Thoughts are the obstacles to realisation. One’s meditation or concentration is meant to get rid of obstacles and not to gain the Self. Does anyone remain apart from the Self? No! The true nature of the Self is declared to be Peace. 

If the same peace is not found, the non-finding is only a thought which is alien to the Self. One practises meditation only to get rid of these alien fancies. So, then, a thought must be quelled as soon as it rises. Whenever a thought arises, do not be carried away by it. You become aware of the body when you forget the Self. 

But can you forget the Self? Being the Self how can you forget it? There must be two selves for one to forget the other. It is absurd. So the Self is not depressed; it is not imperfect: it is ever happy. The contrary feeling is a mere thought which has actually no stamina in it. Be rid of thoughts. Why should one attempt meditation? Being the Self one remains always realised, only be free from thoughts. You think that your health does not permit your meditation. This depression must be traced to its origin. The origin is the wrong identification of the body with the Self. The disease is not of the Self. It is of the body. But the body does not come and tell you that it is possessed by the disease. It is you who say it. Why? Because you have wrongly identified yourself with the body.  The body itself is a thought. Be as you really are. There is no reason to be depressed. The lady was called away and she retired. The question was however pursued as follows: 

D.: Sri Bhagavan’s answers do not permit us to put further questions, not because our minds are peaceful but we are unable to argue the point. Our discontent is not at an end. For the physical ailments to go the mental ailments should go. Both go when thoughts go. Thoughts do not go without effort. Effort is not possible with the present weakness of mind. The mind requires grace to gain strength. Grace must manifest only after surrender. So all questions, wittingly or unwittingly, amount to asking for Sri Bhagavan’s Grace. 

M.: Smiled and said, “Yes.” 

D.: Surrender is said to be bhakti. But Sri Bhagavan is known to favour enquiry for the Self. There is thus confusion in the hearer. 

M.: Surrender can take effect only when done with full knowledge. Such knowledge comes after enquiry. It ends in surrender. 

D.: The knowledge of the Supreme Being is after transcending the individual self. This is jnana. Where is the need for surrender? 

M.: Quite so. There is no difference between jnana and surrender. (Smile).

 D.: How is the questioner satisfied then? The only alternative left is association with the wise or devotion to God (satsanga or Isvara bhakti). 

M.: Smiled and said, “Yes.”

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Talk 465. 

Sri Bhagavan explained to a retired Judge of the High Court some points in the Upadesa Saram as follows:- 

(1) Meditation should remain unbroken as a current. If unbroken it is called samadhi or Kundalini sakti. 

(2) The mind may be latent and merge in the Self; it must necessarily rise up again; after it rises up one finds oneself only as ever before. For in this state the mental predispositions are present there in latent form to remanifest under favourable conditions. 

(3) Again the mind activities can be completely destroyed. This differs from the former mind, for here the attachment is lost, never to reappear. Even though the man sees the world after he has been in the samadhi state, the world will be taken only at its worth, that is to say it is the phenomenon of the One Reality. The True Being can be realised only in samadhi; what was then is also now. Otherwise it cannot be Reality or Ever-present Being. What was in samadhi is here and now too. Hold it and it is your natural condition of Being. Samadhi practice must lead to it. Otherwise how can nirvikalpa samadhi be of any use in which a man remains as a log of wood? He must necessarily rise up from it sometime or other and face the world. But in sahaja samadhi he remains unaffected by the world. So many pictures pass over the cinema screen: fire burns away everything; water drenches all; but the screen remains unaffected. The scenes are only phenomena which pass away leaving the screen as it was. Similarly the world phenomena simply pass on before the Jnani, leaving him unaffected. You may say that people find pain or pleasure in worldly phenomena. It is owing to superimposition. This must not happen. With this end in view practice is made. Practice lies in one of the two courses: devotion or knowledge. Even these are not the goals. Samadhi must be gained; it must be continuously practised until sahaja samadhi results. Then there remains nothing more to do. 

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Talk 466.

 Mr. Vaidyalingam, an employee of the National Bank: By meditation manifestation disappears and then ananda results. It is short-lived. How is it made ever abiding? 

M.: By scorching the predispositions. 

D.: Is not the Self the witness only (sakshimatra)? 

M.: ‘Witness’ is applicable when there is an object to be seen. Then it is duality. The Truth lies beyond both. In the mantra, sakshi cheta kevalo nirgunascha, the word sakshi must be understood as sannidhi (presence), without which there could be nothing. See how the sun is necessary for daily activities. He does not however form part of the world actions; yet they cannot take place without the sun. He is the witness of the activities. So it is with the Self.

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