Talks mar 33

578

Mr. Chopra asked: “How shall I secure that firm faith?” 

M.: Exactly. It is for such as these who want instructions. 

There are persons who seek freedom from misery. 

They are told that God guides all and so there need not be any concern about what happens. 

If they are of the best type they at once believe it and firmly abide by faith in God. 

But there are others who are not so easily convinced of the truth of the bare statement. 

They ask: “Who is God? What is His nature? Where is He? How can He be realised?” and so on. 

In order to satisfy them intellectual discussion is found necessary. Statements are made, their pros and cons are argued, and the truth is thus made clear to the intellect. When the matter is understood intellectually the earnest seeker begins to apply it practically. He argues at every moment, 

“For whom are these thoughts? Who am I?” and so forth, 

until he is well-established in the conviction that a Higher Power guides us. 

That is firmness of faith. 

Then all his doubts are cleared and he needs no further instructions. 

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579

M.: Now what is your real nature? Is it writing, walking, or being? 

The one unalterable reality is Being. Until you realise that state of pure being you should pursue the enquiry.

 If once you are established in it there will be no further worry. No one will enquire into the source of thoughts unless thoughts arise. So long as you think “I am walking,” “I am writing,” enquire who does it. These actions will however go on when one is firmly established in the Self. Does a man always say, “I am a man, I am a man, I am a man,” every moment of his life? He does not say so and yet all his actions are going on.

D.: Is an intellectual understanding of the Truth necessary? 

M.: Yes. Otherwise why does not the person realise God or the Self at once, 

i.e. as soon as he is told that God is all or the Self is all? That shows some wavering on his part. 

He must argue with himself and gradually convince himself of the Truth before his faith becomes firm.

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Talk 597. 

A Swiss lady, Mrs. J. C. S. Hick-Riddingh, asked: “Does Self Realisation imply occult powers also?” 

M.: The Self is the most intimate and eternal Being whereas the siddhis are foreign. 

The one requires effort to acquire and the other does not. 

The powers are sought by the mind which must be kept alert whereas the Self is realised when the mind is destroyed. The powers manifest only when there is the ego.

 The ego makes you aware of others and in its absence there are no others to be seen. The Self is beyond the ego and is realised after the ego is eliminated. 

The elimination of the ego makes one unaware of others. 

How can the question of others arise and where is the use of occult powers for a Self-Realised Being? 

Self-Realisation may be accompanied by occult powers or it may not be. If the person had sought such powers before Realisation, he may get the powers after Realisation. 

There are others who had not sought such powers and had attempted only Self-Realisation. They do not manifest such powers. These powers may also be sought and gained even after Self Realisation. But then they are used for a definite purpose, i.e. the benefit of others as in the case of Chudala. 

Sikhidhvaja was a pious king. His spouse was Chudala. They received instructions from a sage. The king, being busy with the administration of his kingdom, could not put the instructions into practice, whereas Chudala put them into practice and gained Self-Realisation. Consequently she appeared more charming than before. The king was struck by her growing charm and asked her about it. She said that all charm was due to the Self and he was only noting the charm of Self-Realisation in her. 

He said that she was silly. There were great tapasvis who could not realise the Self even after long periods of tapas and what about a silly woman who was all along in the family and in the worldly life? However, Chudala was not offended because she was firm in the Self and only wished that her husband should realise the Self and  be happy. She then thought that unless she could prove her worth by manifesting some extraordinary powers he could not be convinced and she began to seek occult powers and gained them. 

But she did not betray them just then. Constant association with her made the king dispassionate.

 He began to dislike the worldly life and desired to retire into the forest for performing tapasya. 

So he told his wife that he wanted to leave the world for the forest. She was delighted at the development, but pretended to be very much concerned with his unkind decision. He hesitated out of consideration for her. In the meantime, his dispassion gained in force and he decided to leave home even without her consent. When the queen was sleeping one night he suddenly left the palace by stealth and retired into the forest. He was seeking some solitary spot where he could perform his tapas. When the queen woke up she did not find her husband and immediately found out by her occult powers what had really happened. She rejoiced in her husband’s determination. She called the ministers and said that the king had gone on some important business and that the administration should be carried on as efficiently as ever. She herself administered the state in the absence of the king. Eighteen years passed. She then knew that the king was fit for Self-Realisation. So she appeared to him disguised as Kumbha and so on. He then realised the Self and returned to rule the kingdom with the queen. The point is that occult powers are sought and gained for the benefit of others by Self-Realised persons also. But the sages are not deluded by the possession of such powers.

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D.: Can samadhi come and go? 

M.: What is samadhi? Samadhi is one’s essential nature. How then can it come or go?

 If you do not realise your essential nature, your sight remains obstructed. What is the obstruction? Find it and remove it. 

So one’s efforts are meant only for the removal of obstructions which hide the true vision. The real nature remains the same. When once it is realised it is permanent.

D.: But Mr. Brunton says that he had one hour’s samadhi. Therefore I asked the question. 

M.: A practiser gains peace of mind and is happy. That peace is the result of his efforts. But the real state must be effortless. 

The effortless samadhi is the true one and the perfect state. It is permanent. The efforts are spasmodic and so also their results. When the real, effortless, permanent, happy nature is realised it will be found to be not inconsistent with the ordinary activities of life. 

The samadhi reached after efforts looks like abstraction from the external activities. A person might be so abstracted or live freely among people without detriment to his Peace and Happiness because that is his true nature or the Self.

M.: You are neither That nor This. The truth is ‘I am’. “I Am that I Am” according to the Bible also. Mere Being is alone natural. To limit it to ‘being a man’ is uncalled for.

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591

Talk 608. 

Mrs. Hick Riddingh wrote two questions on a slip of paper and asked Sri Bhagavan if her interpretations were correct. 

M.: The Self is beyond ignorance and knowledge. It is Absolute. These doubts do not arise to the Self for it is Pure Consciousness and cannot admit of dark ignorance. 

D.: From our point of view they arise. 

M.: See to whom they arise. Go to their root. See if they arise after you reach their source and hold on to it. 

D.: But at the present moment - 

M.: Such discussions are theoretical and there will be no end to them. One must be practical and try to solve the problems for oneself by the method suggested. The method has been pointed out already. Find out to whom the questions arise. They resolve themselves immediately

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592

M.: That which is continuous is also enduring, i.e. permanent. That which is discontinuous is transitory.

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D.: Yes. 

M.: Therefore the state of Being is permanent and the body and the world are not. They are fleeting phenomena passing on the screen of Being-Consciousness which is eternal and stationary. 

D.: Relatively speaking, is not the sleep state nearer to Pure Consciousness than the waking state? 

M.: Yes, in this sense: When passing from sleep to waking the ‘I’ thought must start; the mind comes into play; thoughts arise; and then the functions of the body come into operation; all these  together make us say that we are awake. The absence of all this evolution is the characteristic of sleep and therefore it is nearer to Pure Consciousness than the waking state. But one should not therefore desire to be always in sleep. In the first place it is impossible, for it will necessarily alternate with the other states. 

Secondly it cannot be the state of bliss in which the Jnani is, for his state is permanent and not alternating. Moreover, the sleep state is not recognised to be one of awareness by people, but the sage is always aware. Thus the sleep state differs from the state in which the sage is established. Still more, the sleep state is free from thoughts and their impression to the individual. It cannot be altered by one’s will because effort is impossible in that condition. 

Although nearer to Pure Consciousness, it is not fit for efforts to realise the Self. 

The incentive to realise can arise only in the waking state and efforts can also be made only when one is awake. We learn that the thoughts in the waking state form the obstacle to gaining the stillness of sleep. “Be still and know that I Am God”. So stillness is the aim of the seeker. Even a single effort to still at least a single thought even for a trice goes a long way to reach the state of quiescence. Effort is required and it is possible in the waking state only. There is the effort here: there is awareness also; the thoughts are stilled; so there is the peace of sleep gained. That is the state of the Jnani. It is neither sleep nor waking but intermediate between the two. There is the awareness of the waking state and the stillness of sleep. It is called jagrat-sushupti. 

Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or sleepless waking or wakeless sleep. It is not the same as sleep or waking separately. It is atijagrat 1 (beyond wakefulness) or atisushupti 2 (beyond sleep). It is the state of perfect awareness and of perfect stillness combined. It lies between sleep and waking; it is also the interval between two successive thoughts. It is the source from which thoughts spring; we see that when we wake up from sleep. In other words thoughts have their origin in the stillness of sleep. The thoughts make all the difference between the stillness of sleep and the turmoil of waking

Go to the root of the thoughts and you reach the stillness of sleep. But you reach it in the full vigour of search, that is, with perfect awareness. That is again jagrat-sushupti spoken of before. It is not dullness; but it is Bliss. It is not transitory but it is eternal. From that the thoughts proceed. What are all our experiences but thoughts? Pleasure and pain are mere thoughts. They are within ourselves. If you are free from thoughts and yet aware, you are That Perfect Being.

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D.: I see, but I can understand it only after I realise the Self. 

M.: The Self is always realised. 

Were Realisation something to be gained hereafter there is an equal chance of its being lost. It will thus be only transitory. 

Transitory bliss brings pain in its train. It cannot be liberation which is eternal. Were it true that you realise it later it means that you are not realised now. Absence of Realisation of the present moment may be repeated at any moment in the future, for Time is infinite. So too, such realisation is impermanent. But that is not true. It is wrong to consider Realisation to be impermanent. It is the True Eternal State which cannot change.

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Talk 610. 

A devotee came with these questions. 

1. Since individual souls and the Brahman are one, what is the cause of this creation? 

2. Is the Brahma-Jnani liable to bodily pains and rebirth? Can he extend his span of life or curtail it? 

 M.: The object of creation is to remove the confusion of your individuality. The question shows that you have identified yourself with the body and therefore see yourself and the world around. You think that you are the body. Your mind and intellect are the factors of your wrong identity. Do you exist in your sleep? 

D.: I do. 

M.: The same being is now awake and asks these questions. Is it not so? 

D.: Yes. 

M.: These questions did not arise in your sleep. Did they? 

D.: No. 

M.: Why not? Because you did not see your body and no thoughts arose. You did not identify yourself with the body then. Therefore these questions did not arise. They arise now because of your identity with the body. Is it not so? 

D.: Yes. 

M.: Now see which is your real nature. Is it that which is free from thoughts or that which is full of thoughts? Being is continuous. The thoughts are discontinuous. So which is permanent? 

D.: Being. 

M.: That is it. Realise it. That is your true nature. Your nature is simple Being, free from thoughts.

 Because you identify yourself with the body you want to know about creation. The world and the objects including your body appear in the waking state but disappear in the state of sleep. You exist all through these states. 

What is it then that persists through all these states? Find it out. 

That is your Self. 

D.: Supposing it is found, what then? 

M.: Find it out and see. There is no use asking hypothetical questions. 

D.: Am I then one with Brahman? 

M.: Leave Brahman alone. Find who you are. Brahman can take care of Himself.

If you cease to identify yourself with the body no questions regarding creation, birth, death, etc., will arise. 

They did not arise in your sleep. 

Similarly they will not arise in the true state of the Self. 

The object of creation is thus clear, that you should proceed from where you find yourself and realise your true Being You could not raise the question in your sleep because there is no creation there. You raise the question now because your thoughts appear and there is creation. Creation is thus found to be only your thoughts. Take care of yourself and the Brahma-jnani will take care of Himself. If you know your true nature, you will understand the state of Brahma-jnana. It is futile to explain it now. Because you think that you see a Jnani before you and you identify him with a body just as you have identified yourself with yours, you also think that he feels pains and pleasures like yourself.

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599

Talk 612. 

Mrs. Hick Riddingh asked Sri Bhagavan in writing: When Bhagavan writes about the help given towards attaining Self Realisation by the gracious glance of the Master or looking upon the Master, how exactly is this to be understood?” 

M.: Who is the Master? Who is the seeker? 

D.: The Self. 

M.: If the Self be the Master and also the seeker, how can the questions arise at all? 

D.: That is just my difficulty. I must seek the Self within myself. What is then the significance of the writing above referred to? It seems contradictory. 

M.: It is not. The statement has not been rightly understood. If the seeker knows the Master to be the Self he sees no duality in other respects either and is therefore happy, so that no questions arise for him. But the seeker does not bring the truth of the statement to bear in practice. It is because of his ignorance. This ignorance is however unreal. The Master is required to wake up the seeker from the slumber of ignorance and he therefore uses these words in order to make Reality clear to others. The only thing that matters is that you see the Self. This. can be done wherever you remain. The Self must be sought within. The search must be steadfast. If that is gained there is no need to stay near the Master as a physical being. The ‘statement’ is meant for those who cannot find the Self remaining where they are.

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