Talks mar 3

https://selfdefinition.org/ramana/Talks-with-Sri-Ramana-Maharshi--complete.pdf

135

Mr. Ellappa Chettiar, a Member of the Legislative Council, from Salem, asked: “Is it enough to introvert the mind or should we meditate on ‘I am Brahman’?” 

M.: To introvert the mind is the prime thing. 

The Buddhists consider the flow of ‘I’ thought to be Liberation; whereas we say that such flow proceeds from its underlying substratum - the only - Reality. 

Why should one be meditating ‘I am Brahman’? Only the annihilation of ‘I’ is Liberation.

 But it can be gained only by keeping the ‘I-I’ always in view. 

So the need for the investigation of the ‘I’ thought.

 If the ‘I’ is not let go, no blank can result to the seeker.

 Otherwise meditation will end in sleep. 

There is only one ‘I’ all along, but what arises up from time to time is the mistaken ‘I-thought’. 

Whereas the intuitive ‘I’ always remains Self-shining, i.e. even before it becomes manifest. 

The birth of the gross body does not amount to one’s own birth, on the other hand, the birth of the ego is one’s own birth. For liberation, nothing new remains to be gained. It is the original state and continues unchanged too.

136

Talk 140. 

D.: What is reality? 

M.: Reality must be always real. It is not with forms and names. 

That which underlies these is the Reality. 

It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. 

It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech, beyond the expressions, e.g., existence, non-existence, etc.

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imp

Talk 141. 

The same gentleman later, after quoting a verse from Kaivalya, asked: “Can jnana be lost after being once attained?”

 M.: Jnana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself. 

The Self is certainly within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines it to be. 

It is only as it is. 

This Experience is samadhi. 

Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas. 

Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, jnana takes time to steady itself. 

Unsteady jnana is not enough to check rebirths. 

Jnana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas.

 True, that in the proximity of a great master, the vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi results, similar to fire not scorching because of other devices. Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master. 

To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary. 

He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while alive. Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go further until it is realised that actionlessness and action are not hostile to each other. 

Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign of ignorance. 

Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone. 

There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness. Until it is realised effort is necessary. 

After tasting such Bliss, even once one will repeatedly try to regain it. 

Having once experienced the Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself otherwise. 

It is as difficult for a Jnani to engage in thoughts as it is for an ajnani to be free from thought. 

The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking. Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.

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Talk 142. Mr. Prakasa Rao from Bezwada: Does not illusion become inoperative even before identity with Brahman results  (Brahmakaravritti)? Or does it persist even afterwards? 

M.: Illusion will not persist after vasanas are annihilated. 

In the interval between the knowledge of the identity and annihilation of vasanas, there will be illusion.

..

 Maj. Chadwick: I do not know if the Self is different from the ego. 

M.: How were you in your deep sleep? 

D.: I do not know. 

M.: Who does not know? Is it not the waking Self? Do you deny your existence in your deep sleep? 

D.: I was and I am; but I do not know who was in deep sleep

 M.: Exactly. The man awake says that he did not know anything in the state of sleep. Now he sees the objects and knows that he is there; whereas in deep sleep there were no objects, no spectator, etc.

The same one who is now speaking was in deep sleep also. What is the difference between these two states? There are objects and play of senses now which were not in sleep. A new entity, the ego, has risen up in the meantime, it plays through the senses, sees the objects, confounds itself with the body and says that the Self is the ego. In reality, what was in deep sleep continues to exist now too. The Self is changeless. It is the ego that has come between. That which rises and sets is the ego; that which remains changeless is the Self.

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140 astral bodies discussion with p brunton

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141

Talk 146.

 In reply to Miss Leena Sarabhai, a cultured Indian lady of high rank, 

Sri Bhagavan said: The state of equanimity is the state of bliss. The declaration in the Vedas ‘I am This or That’, is only an aid to gain equanimity of mind. 

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D.: So, it is wrong to begin with a goal: is it? 

M.: If there be a goal to be reached it cannot be permanent. The goal must already be there. We seek to reach the goal with the ego, but the goal exists before the ego. What is in the goal is even prior to our birth, i.e. to the birth of the ego. 

Because we exist the ego appears to exist too. If we look on the Self as the ego then we become the ego, if as the mind we become the mind, if as the body we become the body. 

It is the thought which builds up sheaths in so many ways. The shadow on the water is found to be shaking. Can anyone stop the shaking of the shadow? If it should cease to shake you would not notice the water but only the light. Similarly to take no notice of the ego and its activities, but see only the light behind. 

The ego is the I-thought. 

The true ‘I’ is the Self.

 D.: It is one step to realisation.

M.: Realisation is already there. The state free from thoughts is the only real state. There is no such action as Realisation. Is there anyone who is not realising the Self? Does anyone deny his own existence? Speaking of realisation, it implies two selves - the one to realise, the other to be realised. What is not already realised, is sought to be realised. Once we admit our existence, how is it that we do not know our Self?

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D.: Because of the thoughts - the mind. 

M.: Quite so. It is the mind that stands between and veils our happiness. How do we know that we exist? If you say because of the world around us, then how do you know that you existed in deep sleep? 

D.: How to get rid of the mind? 

M.: Is it the mind that wants to kill itself? The mind cannot kill itself. So your business is to find the real nature of the mind. Then you will know that there is no mind. When the Self is sought, the mind is nowhere. Abiding in the Self, one need not worry about the mind. 

D.: How to get rid of fear? 

M.: What is fear? It is only a thought. If there is anything besides the Self there is reason to fear. Who sees the second (anything external)? First the ego arises and sees objects as external. If the ego does not rise, the Self alone exists and there is no second (nothing external). For anything external to oneself implies the seer within. Seeking it there will arise no doubt, no fear - not only fear, all other thoughts centred round the ego will disappear along with it. 

D.: This method seems to be quicker than the usual one of cultivating qualities alleged necessary for salvation (sadhana chatushtaya)? 

M.: Yes. All bad qualities centre round the ego. When the ego is gone Realisation results by itself. There are neither good nor bad qualities in the Self. The Self is free from all qualities. Qualities pertain to the mind only. It is beyond quality. If there is unity, there will also be duality. The numeral one gives rise to other numbers. The truth is neither one nor two. IT is as it is.

D.: The difficulty is to be in the thought-free state.

M.: Leave the thought-free state to itself. Do not think of it as pertaining to you. Just as when you walk, you involuntarily take steps, so too in your actions; but the thought-free state is not affected by your actions. 

D.: What is it that is discriminative in action? 

M.: Discrimination will be automatic, intuitive. 

D.: So Intuition alone matters; Intuition develops also. 

M.: Those who have discovered great Truths have done so in the still depths of the Self. 

The ego is like one’s shadow thrown on the ground. 

If one attempts to bury it, it will be foolish. 

The Self is only one. If limited it is the ego. 

If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality. 

The bubbles are different from one another and numerous, but the ocean is only one. 

Similarly the egos are many, whereas the Self is one and only one. 

When told that you are not the ego, realise the Reality. Why do you still identify yourself with the ego? 

It is like saying, “Don’t think of the monkey while taking medicine” - it is impossible. Similarly it happens with common folk. 

When the Reality is mentioned why do you continue to meditate Sivoham or Aham Brahmasmi?

  The significance must be traced and understood. 

It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them. 

Reality is simply the loss of the ego.

 Destroy the ego by seeking its identity.

Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. 

This is the direct method. 

Whereas all other methods are done, only retaining the ego. 

In those paths there arise so many doubts and the eternal question remains to be tackled finally. But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning. No sadhanas are necessary for engaging in this quest. There is no greater mystery than this - viz., ourselves being the Reality we seek to gain Reality. We think that there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. It is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.

D.: So it is a great game of pretending? 

M.: Yes. In Yoga Vasishtha it is said, “What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true.” 

We are actually experiencing the Reality only; still, we do not know it. 

Is it not a wonder of wonders? The quest “Who am I?” is the axe with which to cut off the ego.

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