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Talk 311. The ‘I’ which rises will also subside. That is the individual ‘I’ or the ‘I’- concept. That which does not rise will not subside. It is and will be for ever. That is the universal ‘I’, the perfect ‘I’, or realisation of the Self.
At 5-30 p.m. the Swiss lady complains to Sri Bhagavan that she gets a headache if meditation be prolonged for some time.
M.: If the meditator and meditation be understood to be the same there will be no headache or similar complaints.
D.: But they are different. How shall we consider them to be the same?
M.: That is due to your outlook.
There is only one and there are no differences.
On meditation the relative consciousness will vanish.
That is not annihilation; for Absolute Consciousness arises.
The Bible itself says, “The Kingdom of Heaven is within you” . . . If you consider yourself to be the body there is some difficulty in understanding the statement.
On the other hand if you know who you really are, the Kingdom of Heaven and all are included in your true Self.
They are concepts arising after the ego has arisen.
Drishtim jnanamayeem krtva pasyet Brahmamayam jagat
Direct your look within and make it absolute.
With that absolute awareness realised, look without and you will realise the universe to be not apart from the realised Absolute.
Because your outlook is externally directed you speak of a without. In that state you are advised to look within.
This within is relative to the without you are seeking.
In fact, the Self is neither without nor within. Speaking of Heaven one thinks of it as above or below, within or without, since one is accustomed to relative knowledge.
One seeks only objective knowledge and hence these ideas.
Really speaking there is neither up nor down, neither in nor out. If they were real they must be present in dreamless sleep also.
For what is real must be continuous and permanent.
Did you feel ‘in’ or ‘out’ in sleep? Of course not.
D.: I do not remember.
M.: If there was anything there that could be remembered. But you admit your existence then. The same Self is now speaking.
The Self who was undifferentiated in sleep is differentiated in the present state, and sees the diversity.
The Real Existence is the only One devoid of objective knowledge.
That is absolute consciousness. That is the state of happiness, as admitted by all of us.
That state must be brought about even in this waking state.
It is called jagrat sushupti.
That is mukti.
....
D.: The ego is the one which reincarnates.
M.: Yes. But what is reincarnation? The ego remains the same. New bodies appear and hold it. The ego does not change. It does not leave one body, seek and find another. Just see what happens even to your gross body. Suppose you go to London. How do you do it? You take a conveyance, go to the docks, board the steamer and reach London in a few days. What has happened? The conveyances had moved, but not your body. Still you say that you travelled from one part of the globe to the other part. The movements of the conveyances have been superimposed on your body.
Similarly also with your ego. The reincarnations are super-impositions.
For example, what happens in a dream? Do you go to the dream world or does it occur in you? Surely the latter. Just the same with incarnations. The ego remains changeless all along. Again, there is no time and space in your sleep. They are concepts which arise after the ‘I-thought’ has arisen. Before the rise of the ‘I thought’ the concepts are absent. Therefore you are beyond time and space.
The ‘I-thought’ is only limited ‘I’.
The real ‘I’ is unlimited, universal, beyond time and space.
They are absent in sleep.
Just on rising up from sleep, and before seeing the objective world,
there is a state of awareness which is your pure Self.
That must be known.
D.: But I do not realise it.
M.: It is not an object to be realised.
You are That.
Who is there to realise and what?
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294
regarding mantra
M.: It is not external and therefore need not be sought elsewhere. It is internal and also eternal. It is always realised. But you say you are not aware.
It requires constant attention to itself.
No other effort is necessary.
Your effort is only meant not to allow yourself to be distracted by other thoughts.
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296
D.: Of course they cannot arise for the Self. Who would be there to ask? But unfortunately I have not yet realised the Self.
M.: That is just the obstacle in your way.
You must get rid of the idea that you are an ajnani yet to realise the Self. You are the Self. Was there ever a time when you were apart from the Self?
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Talk 314.
In yesterday’s answers, Sri Bhagavan said that the Self is pure consciousness in deep slumber, and He also indicated the Self of the transition from sleep to the waking state as the ideal for realisation. He was requested to explain the same.
Sri Bhagavan graciously answered:
The Self is pure consciousness in sleep.
It evolves as aham (‘I’) without the idam (‘this’) in the transition stage;
and manifests as aham (‘I’) and idam (‘this’) in the waking state.
The individual’s experience is by means of aham (‘I’) only.
So he must aim at realisation in the way indicated (i.e., by means of the transitional ‘I’).
Otherwise the sleep-experience does not matter to him.
If the transitional ‘I’ be realised the substratum is found and that leads to the goal.
Again, sleep is said to be ajnana (ignorance).
That is only in relation to the wrong jnana (knowledge) prevalent in the wakeful state. The waking state is really ajnana (ignorance) and the sleep state is prajnana (full knowledge).
Prajnana is Brahman, says the sruti.
Brahman is eternal. The sleep-experiencer is called prajna. He is prajnanam in all the three states. Its particular significance in the sleep state is that He is full of knowledge (prajnanaghana).
What is ghana?
There are jnana and vijnana. Both together operate in all perceptions. Vijnana in the jagrat is viparita jnana (wrong knowledge) i.e., ajnana (ignorance).
It always co-exists with the individual. When this becomes vispashta jnana (clear knowledge), It is Brahman.
When wrong knowledge is totally absent, as in sleep, He remains pure prajnana only.
That is Prajnanaghana. Aitareya Upanishad says prajnana, vijnana, ajnana, samjnana are all names of Brahman.
Being made up of knowledge alone how is He to be experienced? Experience is always with vijnana.
Therefore the pure ‘I’ of the transitional stage must be held for the experience of the Prajnanaghana.
The ‘I’ of the waking state is impure and is not useful for such experience.
Hence the use of the transitional ‘I’ or the pure ‘I’.
How is this pure ‘I’ to be realised?
Viveka Chudamani says, Vijnana kose vilasatyajasram (He is always shining forth in the intellectual sheath, vijnana kosa).
Tripura Rahasya and other works point out that the interval between two consecutive sankalpas (ideas or thoughts) represent the pure aham (‘I’).
Therefore holding on to the pure ‘I’, one should have the Prajnanaghana for aim, and there is the vritti present in the attempt.
All these have their proper and respective places and at the same time lead to realisation.
Again the pure Self has been described in Viveka Chudamani to be beyond asat, i.e., different from asat.
Here asat is the contaminated waking ‘I’.
Asadvilakshana means sat, i.e., the Self of sleep.
He is also described as different from sat and asat. Both mean the same. He is also asesha sakshi (all-seeing witness). If pure, how is He to be experienced by means of the impure ‘I’?
A man says “I slept happily”. Happiness was his experience. If not, how could he speak of what he had not experienced?
How did he experience happiness in sleep, if the Self was pure?
Who is it that speaks of that experience now?
The speaker is the vijnanatma (ignorant self) and he speaks of prajnanatma (pure self).
How can that hold? Was this vijnanatma present in sleep? His present statement of the experience of happiness in sleep makes one infer his existence in sleep. How then did he remain? Surely not as in the waking state. He was there very subtle.
Exceedingly subtle vijnanatma experiences the happy prajnanatma by means of maya mode.
It is like the rays of the moon seen below the branches, twigs and leaves of a tree.
The subtle vijnanatma seems apparently a stranger to the obvious vijnanatma of the present moment. Why should we infer his existence in sleep? Should we not deny the experience of happiness and be done with this inference? No.
The fact of the experience of happiness cannot be denied, for everyone courts sleep and prepares a nice bed for the enjoyment of sound sleep. This brings us to the conclusion that the cogniser, cognition and the cognised are present in all the three states, though there are differences in their subtleties.
In the transitional state, the aham (‘I’) is suddha (pure), because idam (‘this’) is suppressed.
Aham (‘I’) predominates. ‘Why is not that pure ‘I’ realised now or even remembered by us?
Because of want of acquaintance (parichaya) with it.
It can be recognised only if it is consciously attained.
Therefore make the effort and gain consciously
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301
D.: Since I have not realised the Self I say that I do not understand my permanent state of trance.
M.: This is only a repetition. That is the obstruction.
This arises because you think that the non-self is you. That is the mistake. Do not take the non-self to be the Self.
Then the Self will be evident to you.
D.: I understand it theoretically but not practically.
M.: There are no two selves - for the self to speak of the non-realisation of the Self.
D.: It is still theoretical to me. How shall I get the trance?
M.: Trance is only temporary in its effects. There is happiness so long as it lasts. After rising from it the old vasanas return. Unless the vasanas are destroyed in sahaja samadhi (effortless samadhi), there is no good of trance.
D.: But trance must precede sahaja samadhi?
M.: Trance is the natural state. Although there are activities and phenomena, yet they do not affect the trance. If they are realised to be not apart from the Self, the Self is realised. Where is the use of trance, unless it brings about enduring peace of mind? Know that even now you are in trance whatever happens. That is all.
D.: If trance be my natural state, why is it said that trance is necessary to be got before Realisation?
M.: That means that one should be aware of his eternal state of trance. Inattentiveness to it is ignorance. Pramado vai mrtyuh (inattention is death itself).
........
D.: How can I be attentive without getting trance beforehand?
M.: Very well. If you are so anxious for trance any narcotic will bring it about. Drug-habit will be the result and not liberation. There are vasanas in the latent state even in trance. The vasanas must be destroyed.
Another devotee: Can there be Self-Realisation before the vasanas are entirely destroyed?
M.: There are two kinds of vasanas: (1) bandha hetuh, causing bondage for the ignorant, and (2) bhoga hetuh, giving enjoyment for the wise. The latter do not obstruct realisation.
D.: Are the Self-realised persons reborn? e.g., Vamadeva, Jada Bharata, etc.
M.: The Realised ones cannot be reborn. Rebirth is due to vasanas which are binding. But they are destroyed in the state of Self-realisation.
D.: Are we to take it that they had gone to the stage of kevala nirvikalpa but not to sahaja nirvikalpa?
M.: Yes.
D.: If only vasanas for enjoyment do not obstruct the state of realisation and if one can look upon the events of the world without his state of bliss being disturbed, it means that attachment alone is bondage. Am I right?
M.: Yes, quite. Attachment is bondage. Attachment disappears with the elimination of the ego.
D.: Realisation is said to be helped by Guru’s Grace.
M.: Guru is none other than the Self.
D.: Krishna had Sandipini for his Guru and so Rama had Vasishta.
M.: Guru is said to be external for the seeker. The in-turn of the mind is brought about by the Guru. Since the seeker is out-ward-bent he is advised to learn from a Guru whom he will in due course find to be the Self.
D.: May I have Guru’s Grace?
M.: Grace is always there.
........
D.: But I did not feel the same.
M.: Surrender will make one understand the Grace.
D.: I have surrendered heart and soul. I am the best judge of my heart. Still I do not feel the Grace.
M.: If you had surrendered the questions would not arise.
......
D.: I have surrendered. Still the questions arise.
M.: Grace is constant. Your judgement is the variable. Where else should the fault lie?
.......
D.: I must be enabled to surrender myself.
M.: Thayumanavar has said: “Glory to Thee for enabling me to discuss so much and follow Thy words so far!”
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303
M.: The seer is only one. They do not appear without the seer. There is no change in the seer, however much the others may change.
Yogah karmasu kousalam = Skill in work is yoga, Samatvam yoga uchyate = Equanimity is yoga, Mamekam saranam vraja = Only surrender to Me, Ekamevadwiteeyam = Only one without a second, representing Karma, Yoga, Bhakti and Jnana convey the same meaning. They are only the single Truth presented in different aspects.
Mr. Ekanatha Rao: Is Grace necessary for it?
M.: Yes.
D.: How to gain Divine Grace?
M.: By surrender.
D.: Still I do not feel Grace.
M.: Sincerity is wanting.
Surrender should not be verbal nor conditional. Passages from St. Justinian were read out to illustrate these statements. Prayer is not verbal. It is from the heart.
To merge into the Heart is prayer. That is also Grace.
The Alwar says: “I was all along seeking Thee. But on realising the Self I find you are the Self.
The Self is my all, and so you are my All.”
..
D.: Impurities of limitation, ignorance and desire (anava, mayika, and kamya) place obstacles in the way of meditation. How to conquer them?
M.: Not to be swayed by them.
D.: Grace is necessary.
M.: Yes, Grace is both the beginning and the end. Introversion is due to Grace: Perseverance is Grace; and Realisation is Grace.
That is the reason for the statement: Mamekam saranam vraja (only surrender to Me). If one has entirely surrendered oneself is there any part left to ask for Grace? He is swallowed up by Grace.
.....
D.: The obstacles are powerful and obstruct meditation.
M.: If a Higher Power is recognised and surrendered to, how will they obstruct you?
If you say “They are powerful,” the source of their Power must be held so that they do not obstruct you.
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Talk 320.
In the course of an informal conversation Sri Bhagavan pointed out that Self-Realisation is possible only for the fit.
The vasanas must be eliminated before jnana dawns.
One must be like Janaka for jnana to dawn.
One must be ready to sacrifice everything for the Truth.
Complete renunciation is the index of fitness.
.......
Talk 321.
D.: Miseries appear in jagrat. Why should they appear.
M.: If you see your Self they will not appear.
D.: If I turn to look who I am I do not find anything.
M.: How did you remain in your sleep? There was no ‘I-thought’ there and you were happy.
Whereas there are thoughts flowering in the wake of the root-thought ‘I’ in the jagrat and these hide the inherent happiness.
Get rid of these thoughts which are the obstacles to happiness.
Your natural state is one of happiness as was evident in your sleep.
...
D.: I do not know anything of my sleep experience.
M.: But you know that it was happiness. Otherwise you would not be saying “I slept happily”. When there is no thought, no ‘I’, and nothing. In fact nothing except yourself, you are happy. That is the whole Truth.
This is exactly what is conveyed by the Mahavakya Tatvamasi (You are That). Find your Self: and then “That” is known.
...
D.: How is that Brahman?
M.: Why do you want to know of Brahman apart from yourself? The scripture says “You are That”. The Self is intimate to you and you cannot indeed be without the Self. Realise it. That is the Realisation of Brahman also.
.......
D.: But I am unable to do it. I am too weak to realise my Self.
M.: In that case surrender yourself unreservedly and the Higher Power will reveal Itself.
...
D.: What is unconditional surrender?
M.: If one surrenders oneself there will be no one to ask questions or to be thought of.
Either the thoughts are eliminated by holding on to the root-thought ‘I’ or one surrenders oneself unconditionally to the Higher Power.
These are the only two ways for Realisation.
........
Here is another illustration. Suppose a cow plays rogue and strays into neighbours’ fields to graze. She is not easily weaned from her stealthy habit. Think how she can be kept in the stall. If forcibly tethered in the stall she simply bides her time to play the rogue. If she is tempted with fine grass in the stall she takes one mouthful on the first day and again waits for the opportunity to run away. The next day she takes two mouthfuls; so she takes more and more on each succeeding day, until finally she is weaned from her wicked tendencies. When entirely free from bad habits she might be safely left free and she would not stray into neighbours’ pasture land. Even when beaten in the stall, she does not afterwards leave the place. Similarly with the mind.
It is accustomed to stray outward by the force of the latent vasanas manifesting as thoughts.
So long as there are vasanas contained within they must come out and exhaust themselves.
The thoughts comprise the mind.
Searching what the mind is, the thoughts will recoil and the seeker will know that they arise from the Self.
It is the aggregate of these thoughts that we call ‘mind’.
If one realises that the thoughts arise from the Self and abide in their source, the mind will disappear.
After the mind ceases to exist and bliss of peace has been realised, one will find it then as difficult to bring out a thought, as he now finds it difficult to keep out all thoughts.
Here the mind is the cow playing the rogue; the thoughts are the neighbours’ pasture; one’s own primal being free from thoughts is the stall. The bliss of peace is too good to be disturbed. A man fast asleep hates to be awakened and ordered to mind his business. The bliss of sleep is too enthralling to be sacrificed to the work born of thoughts.
The thought-free state is one’s primal state and full of bliss. Is it not miserable to leave such a state for the thought-ridden and unhappy one?
If one wants to abide in the thought-free state, a struggle is inevitable.
One must fight one’s way through before regaining one’s original primal state.
If one succeeds in the fight and reaches the goal, the enemy, namely the thoughts, will all subside in the Self and disappear entirely.
The thoughts are the enemy. They amount to the creation of the Universe. In their absence there is neither the world nor God the Creator.
The Bliss of the Self is the single Being only. When Prahlada was in samadhi, Vishnu thought within Himself: “This asura being in samadhi, all the asuras are in peace. There is no fight, no trial of strength, no search for power, nor the means for gaining power. In the absence of such means for power - yaga, yajna, etc., i.e., the gods are not thriving; there is no new creation; nor even is any existence justified.
So I will wake him up; then the asuras will rise up; their original nature will manifest itself; the gods will challenge them: the asuras and others will then seek strength and adopt the means for its acquisition. Yajnas, etc., will flourish; the gods will thrive; there will be more and more of creation, more of fight and I shall have enough to do”. So Vishnu awakened Prahlada, blessing him with eternal life and jivanmukti. Deva-asura fight was resumed and the old order of things was restored so that the universe continues in its eternal nature.
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