Talks mar 16

 251

M.: The birth of the ‘I-thought’ is one’s own birth, its death is the person’s death. 

After the ‘I-thought’ has arisen the wrong identity with the body arises. 

Thinking yourself the body, you give false values to others and identify them with bodies. 

Just as your body has been born, grows and will perish, so also you think the other was born, grew up and died. Did you think of your son before his birth? The thought came after his birth and persists even after his death. In as much as you are thinking of him he is your son. Where has he gone? He has gone to the source from which he sprang. He is one with you. So long as you are, he is there too. 

If you cease to identify yourself with the body, but see the real Self, this confusion will vanish. 

You are eternal. The others also will similarly be found to be eternal. Until this truth is realised there will always be this grief due to false values arising from wrong knowledge and wrong identity.

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She: Let me have true knowledge by Sri Bhagavan’s Grace. 

M.: Get rid of the ‘I-thought’. So long as ‘I’ is alive, there is grief. When ‘I’ ceases to exist, there is no grief. Consider the state of sleep!

She: Yes. But when I take to the ‘I-thought’, other thoughts arise and disturb me. 

M.: See whose thoughts they are. They will vanish. They have their root in the single ‘I-thought’. Hold to it and they will disappear

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Talk 277. 

Mr. Cohen: What is will? I mean - where does it fit in, in the five kosas? 

M.: The ‘I-thought’ arises first and then all other thoughts. 

They comprise the mind. The mind is the object and the ‘I’ is the subject. Can there be will without the ‘I’? It is comprised in the ‘I’. The ‘I-thought’ is the vijnanamaya kosa (intellectual sheath). Will is included in it. 

Sri Bhagavan said further: Annamaya kosa is the gross body sheath. The senses with the prana and the karmendriyas form the pranamayakosa (sense-sheath). The senses with the mind form the manomaya kosa (mind-sheath). They are the jnanendryas. The mind is formed of thoughts only Idam (this) is the object and aham (‘I’) is the subject; the two together form the vijnanamayakosa (intellect-sheath). 

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D.: Do you mean to say that sleep is Self-Realisation? 

M.: It is the Self. Why do you talk of Realisation? Is there a moment when the Self is not realised? If there be such a moment, the other moment might be said to be one of Realisation. There is no moment when the Self is not nor when the Self is not realised. Why pick out sleep for it? Even now you are Self-realised. 

D.: But I do not understand. 

M.: Because you are identifying the Self with the body. Give up the wrong identity and the Self is revealed. 

D.: But this does not answer my question to help me to get rid of Maya, i.e. attachment. 

M.: This attachment is not found in sleep. It is perceived and felt now. It is not your real nature. On whom is this accretion? If the Real Nature is known these exist not. If you realise the Self the possessions are not perceived. That is getting rid of Maya. Maya is not objective, that it could be got rid of in any other way

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261

D.: Does the path to Self-Realisation go through samadhi? 

M.: They are synonymous. 

D.: It is said that the Guru can make his disciple realise the Self by transmitting some of his own power to him? Is it true? 

M.: Yes. The Guru does not bring about Self-Realisation. He simply removes the obstacles to it. The Self is always realised. 

D.: Is there absolute necessity of a Guru for Self-Realisation?

 M.: So long as you seek Self-Realisation the Guru is necessary. Guru is the Self. 

Take Guru to be the Real Self and your self as the individual self.

 The disappearance of this sense of duality is removal of ignorance. 

So long as duality persists in you the Guru is necessary. Because you identify yourself with the body you think the Guru, too, to be some body. 

You are not the body, nor is the Guru. 

You are the Self and so is the Guru. 

This knowledge is gained by what you call Self-Realisation.

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D.: How can one know whether a particular individual is competent to be a Guru? 

M.: By the peace of mind found in his presence and by the sense of respect you feel for him.

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M.:Iswaro Gururatmeti - Iswara, Guru and Self are identical. So long as the sense of duality persists in you, you seek a Guru considering that he stands apart. He however teaches you the truth and you gain the insight.

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D.: If the Self be itself aware, why am I not aware of the same, even now? 

M.: There is no duality. Your present knowledge is due to the ego and only relating. 

Relative knowledge requires a subject and an object. Whereas the awareness of the Self is absolute and requires no object. Remembrance also is similarly relative, requiring an object to be remembered and a subject to remember. When there is no duality, who is to remember whom?

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D.: Sri Ramakrishna says that nirvikalpa samadhi cannot last longer than twenty-one days. If persisted in, the person dies. Is it so? 

M.: When the prarabdha is exhausted the ego is completely dissolved without leaving any trace behind. This is final liberation. Unless prarabdha is completely exhausted the ego will be rising up in its pure form even in jivanmuktas. I still doubt the statement of the maximum duration of twenty-one days. It is said that people cannot live if they fast thirty or forty days. But there are those who have fasted longer, say a hundred days. It means that there is still prarabdha for them. 

D.: How is realisation made possible? 

M.: There is the absolute Self from which a spark proceeds as from fire. The spark is called the ego. In the case of an ignorant man it identifies itself with an object simultaneously with its rise. It cannot remain independent of such association with objects. 

This association is ajnana or ignorance, whose destruction is the objective of our efforts. If its objectifying tendency is killed it remains pure, and also merges into the source. 

The wrong identification with the body is dehatmabuddhi (‘I-am-the-body’ idea). This must go before good results follow.

D.: How to eradicate it? 

M.: We exist in sushupti without being associated with the body and mind. 

But in the other two states we are associated with them. 

If one with the body, how can we exist without the body in sushupti? We can separate ourselves from that which is external to us and not from that which is one with us. 

Hence the ego is not one with the body. 

This must be realised in the waking state. 

Avasthatraya (the three states of waking, dream and deep sleep) should be studied only for gaining this outlook. 

The ego in its purity is experienced in intervals between two states or two thoughts. Ego is like that caterpillar which leaves its hold only after catching another. 

Its true nature can be found when it is out of contact with objects or thoughts. Realise this interval with the conviction gained by the study of avasthatraya (the three states of consciousness).

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D.: No, no, it is all theory. I have read many books. But no use. It is practically impossible to make the mind concentrate. 

M.: Concentration is impossible so long as there are predispositions. They obstruct bhakti also. The interpreter advised the questioner to study Who am I? The doctor was ready with his protestations: “I have read it also. I cannot still make my mind concentrate.”

 M.: By practice and dispassion — abhyasa vairagyabhyam. 

D.: Vairagya is necessary ... 

M.: Abhyasa and vairagya are necessary. Vairagya is the absence of diffused thoughts; abhyasa is concentration on one thought only. The one is the positive and the other the negative aspect of meditation. 

D.: I am not able to do so by myself. I am in search of a force to help me. 

M.: Yes, that is called Grace. Individually we are incapable because the mind is weak. Grace is necessary. Sadhu seva is meant only for it. There is however nothing new to get. Just as a weak man comes under the control of a stronger one, the weak mind of a man comes under control easily in the presence of the strong-minded sadhus. 

That which is - is only Grace; there is nothing else.

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