Talks mar 14

 232

Talk 256. 

A question was asked regarding the position of one whose jnana is weak in the scheme of things. The doubt was if that manda Jnani had stopped short of kevala nirvikalpa. 

M.: Kevala nirvikalpa happens even in the tanumanasi stage (of attenuated mind). 

D.: The middling and superior jnanis are said to be jivanmuktas. Kevala nirvikalpa is in tanumanasa. Where does one whose jnana is weak fit in? 

M.: He comes in sattvapatti (realisation) - whereas the middling and the superior ones come in asamsakti and padarthabhavini respectively. This division as dull, middling, and superior is according to the momentum of prarabdha. If it is strong he is weak; if it is middling he is middling too; if prarabdha is weak he is superior; if it is very weak he is in turyaga. There is no difference in the samadhi state or the jnana of the jnanis. The classification is only from the standpoint of the observer. 

D.: Is tanumanasi the same as mumukshutva? 

M.: No. The six qualities, discrimination, dispassion and mumukshutva, etc., precede subhechcha. The first stage follows mumukshutva, then comes vicharana (search), then the tenuous mind. Direct perception is in sattvapatti (realisation).

There is no need to discuss similar points. Jivanmukti and Videhamukti are differently described by different authorities; Videhamukti is sometimes said to occur even when the man is seen with a body. The fact is that mukti is another name for Aham (‘I’). 

The Seven Jnana bhumikas (stages of knowledge) are: 

(1) Subhechcha (desire for enlightenment); 

(2) Vicharana (hearing and reflection); 

(3) Tanumanasi (tenuous mind); 

(4) Sattvapatti (Self-Realisation); 

(5) Asamsakti (non-attachment); 

(6) Padarthabhavani (absolute non-perception of objects); 

(7) Turyaga (beyond words). 

Those who have attained the last four Bhumikas are respectively called Brahmavit, Brahmavidvara, Brahmavidvarya and Brahmavidvarishtha.

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Talk 257. 

D.: A certain young man from Dindigul spoke to Sri Bhagavan, saying that he had learnt by his stay for a few days; that all that he need do was to enquire, “Who am I?” He wanted to know if any discipline was to be observed and started with the question: “Where should I do the enquiry?” meaning if he should do it in Guru sannidhi (the presence of the Master). 

M.: The enquiry should be from where the ‘I’ is

233

Talk 264. 

D.: Does Bhagavan see the world as part and parcel of Himself? How does He see the world? 

M.: The Self alone is and nothing else. However, it is differentiated owing to ignorance. Differentiation is threefold: (1) of the same kind: (2) of a different kind, and (3) as parts in itself. The world is not another self similar to the self. It is not different from the self; nor is it part of the self. 

D.: Is not the world reflected on the Self? 

M.: For reflection there must be an object and an image. But the Self does not admit of these differences. 

D.: Does not then Bhagavan see the world? 

M.: Whom do you mean by Bhagavan? 

D.: A jiva advanced more than I. 

M.: If you understand your jiva the other jiva is also understood. 

D.: I do not want to discuss. I want to learn. Please instruct me. 

M.: Because you desire to learn, discussion is unavoidable. Leave all this aside. Consider your sleep. Are you then aware of bondage or do you seek means for release? Are you then aware of the body itself? The sense of bondage is associated with the body. Otherwise there is no bondage, no material to bind with and no one to be bound. These appear, however, in your wakeful state. Consider to whom they appear. 

D.: To the mind. 

M.: Watch the mind. You must stand aloof from it. You are not the mind. And the Self will remain ever.

D.: Are all in liberation? 

M.: Where is all? There is no liberation either. It could be only if there was bondage. There was really no bondage and so, it follows, there is no liberation. 

D.: But to evolve through births, there must be practice, years of abhyasa. 

M.: Abhyasa is only to prevent any disturbance to the inherent peace. There is no question of years. Prevent this thought at this moment. You are only in your natural state whether you make abhyasa or not.

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Sri Bhagavan said smiling: “Yes. Silence is perpetual speaking. Ordinary speech hinders that heart to-heart talk.”

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M.: If the longing is there, Realisation will be forced on you even if you do not want it. Subhechcha is the doorway for realisation

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241

There is only mukti. Mukti synonymous with the Self.

M.: Mukti is synonymous with the Self. Jivan mukti (liberation while alive) and videha mukti (liberation after the body falls) are all for the ignorant. The Jnani is not conscious of mukti or bandha (bondage). Bondage, liberation and orders of mukti are all said for an ajnani in order that ignorance might be shaken off. There is only mukti and nothing else.

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D.: It is all right from the standpoint of Bhagavan. But what about us? 

M.: The difference ‘He’ and ‘I’ are the obstacles to jnana.

D.: But it cannot be denied that Bhagavan is of a high order whereas we are limited. Will Bhagavan make me one with Him? 

M.: Were you aware of limitations in your sleep? 

D.: I cannot bring down the state of my sleep in the present state and speak of it. 

M.: You need not. These three states alternate before the unchanging Self. You can remember your state of sleep. That is your real state. There were no limitations then. After the rise of the ‘I-thought’ the limitations arose. 

D.: How to attain the Self? 

M.: Self is not to be attained because you are the Self. 

D.: Yes. There is an unchanging Self and a changing one in me. There are two selves. 

M.: The changefulness is mere thought. All thoughts arise after the arising of the ‘I-thought’. See to whom the thoughts arise. Then you transcend them and they subside. This is to say, tracing the source of the ‘I-thought’, you realise the perfect ‘I-I’. ‘I’ is the name of the Self. 

D.: Shall I meditate on “I am Brahman” (Aham Brahmasmi)? 

M.: The text is not meant for thinking “I am Brahman”. Aham (‘I’) is known to everyone. Brahman abides as Aham in everyone. Find out the ‘I’. The ‘I’ is already Brahman. You need not think so. Simply find out the ‘I’. 

D.: Is not discarding of the sheaths mentioned in the sastras?

M.: After the rise of the ‘I-thought’ there is the false identification of the ‘I’ with the body, the senses, the mind, etc. ‘I’ is wrongly associated with them and the true ‘I’ is lost sight of.

 In order to shift the pure ‘I’ from the contaminated ‘I’ this discarding is mentioned.

 But it does not mean exactly discarding of the non-self, but it means the finding of the real Self.

 The real Self is the Infinite ‘I-I’, i.e. ‘I’ is perfection. It is eternal. It has no origin and no end. The other ‘I’ is born and also dies. It is impermanent. See to whom are the changing thoughts. They will be found to arise after the ‘I-thought’. Hold the ‘I-thought’. They subside.

Trace back the source of the ‘I-thought’. The Self alone will remain.

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