Talks mar 27

 466

Talk 467. 

Yogi Ramiah: All actions take place owing to Sakti. How far does Sakti go? Can she effect anything without one’s own effort? 

M.: The answer to the question depends on what the Purusha is understood to be. Is he the ego or the Self? 

D.: Purusha is svarupa. 

M.: But he cannot make any prayatna (effort). 

D.: Jiva is the one who makes the prayatna. 

M.: So long as egoity lasts prayatna is necessary. When egoity ceases to be, actions become spontaneous. The ego acts in the presence of the Self. He cannot exist without the Self. The Self makes the universe what it is by His Sakti, and yet He does not Himself act. 

Sri Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, “I am not the doer and yet actions go on”. It is clear from the Mahabharata that very wonderful actions were effected by Him. Yet He says that He is not the doer. It is like the sun and the world actions. 

D.: He is without abhimana (attachment) whereas the jiva is with abhimana. 

 M.: Yes. Being attached, he acts and also reaps the fruits. If the fruits are according to his desire he is happy; otherwise he is miserable. Happiness and misery are due to his attachment. If actions were to take place without attachment there would be no expectation of fruit. 

D.: Can actions take place spontaneously without individual effort? Should we not cook our food in order to eat it later? 

M.: Atman acts through the ego. All actions are due to efforts only. A sleeping child is fed by its mother. The child eats food without being wide awake and then denies having taken food in sleep. However the mother knows what happened. Similarly the Jnani acts unawares. Others see him act, but he does not know it himself. Owing to fear of Him wind blows, etc. That is the order of things. He ordains everything and the universe acts accordingly, yet He does not know. Therefore He is called the great Doer. Every embodied being (ahankari) is bound by niyama. Even Brahma cannot transgress it.

 [This devotee later explained the significance of his question. He hears Sri Bhagavan say that the world goes on and the individual needs are met by Divine Will. But he finds that Sri Bhagavan wakes up the Asramites at about 4 a.m. to cut vegetables for the day’s curry. He wanted to have the doubt cleared for his own benefit and the question was not meant for discussion].

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Talk 469. 

Yogi Ramiah asked: A master is approached by an aspirant for enlightenment. The master says that Brahman has no qualities, nor stain, nor movement, etc. Does he not then speak as an individual? How can the aspirant’s ignorance be wiped off unless the master speaks thus? Do the words of the master as an individual amount to Truth? 

M.: To whom should the master speak? Whom does he instruct? Does he see anyone different from the Self? 

D.: But the disciple is asking the master for elucidation. 

M.: True, but does the master see him as different? The ignorance of the disciple lies in not knowing that all are Self-realised. Can anyone exist apart from the Self? The master simply points out that the ignorance lies there and therefore does not stand apart as an individual. What is Realisation? Is it to see God with four hands, bearing conch, wheel, club, etc.? Even if God should appear in that form, how is the disciple’s ignorance wiped out? The truth must be eternal realisation. The direct perception is ever-present Experience. God Himself is known as directly perceived. It does not mean that He appears before the devotee as said above. Unless the Realisation be eternal it cannot serve any useful purpose. Can the appearance with four hands be eternal realisation? It is phenomenal and illusory. There must be a seer. The seer alone is real and eternal. Let God appear as the light of a million suns: Is it pratyaksha? To see it, the eyes, the mind, etc. are necessary. It is indirect knowledge, whereas the seer is direct experience. The seer alone is pratyaksha. All other perceptions are only secondary knowledge. 

The present super-imposition of the body as ‘I’ is so deep-rooted, that the vision before the eyes is considered pratyaksha but not the seer himself. 

No one wants realisation because there is no one who is not realised. 

Can anyone say that he is not already realised or that he is apart from the Self? No. Evidently all are realised. What makes him unhappy is the desire to exercise extraordinary powers. He knows that he cannot do so. Therefore he wants God to appear before him, confer all His powers on the devotee, and keep Himself in the background. In short, God should abdicate His powers in favour of the man.

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471

Another visitor from Rawalpindi asked: The Atman is formless. How shall I concentrate on it? 

M.: Leave alone the Atman which you say is formless or intangible. Mind is tangible to you. Hold the mind and it will do.

D.: Mind itself is very subtle and is also the same as the Atman. How shall we know the nature of the mind? You have said that all supports are useless. What should be our stand then? 

M.: Where does your mind stand?

 D.: Where does it stand?

 M.: Ask the mind itself. 

D.: I ask you now. Should we concentrate on mind then? 

M.: Um! 

D.: But what is the nature of the mind? It is formless. The problem is perplexing. 

M.: Why are you perplexed? 

D.: The sastras want us to concentrate and I cannot do so. 

M.: Through what sastras have we known our existence? 

D.: It is a matter of experience. But I want to concentrate. 

M.: Be free from thoughts. Do not hold on to anything. They do not hold you. Be yourself. 

D.: I do not yet understand as to where I take my stand and concentrate. Can I meditate on my mind? 

M.: Whose mind? 

D.: My own mind? 

M.: Who are you? The question now resolves itself all right. 

(All retired for lunch. The visitor returned at 2-30 p.m. and pursued the same question.) 

He said: Maharshi advises the seeker to get rid of thoughts. On what should I concentrate the mind after all the thoughts are expelled? I do not see where I stand then and on what I should concentrate. 

M.: For whom is the concentration? 

D.: For the mind. 

M.: Then concentrate the mind. 

D.: On what? 

M.: Answer the question yourself. What is the mind? Why should you concentrate?

D.: I do not know what the mind is. I ask Maharshi. 

M.: Maharshi does not seek to know the mind. The questioner must question the mind itself as to what it is. 

D.: Maharshi advises that the mind should be divested of thoughts. 

M.: This is itself a thought. 

D.: When all thoughts disappear what remains over? 

M.: Is the mind different from thoughts? 

D.: No. The mind is made up of thoughts. My point is this: When all thoughts are got rid of, how shall I concentrate the mind? 

M.: Is not this also a thought? 

D.: Yes, but I am advised to concentrate. 

M.: Why should you concentrate? Why should you not allow your thoughts free play? 

D.: The sastras say that the thoughts, thus playing free, lead us astray, that is, to unreal and changeful things. 

M.: So then, you want not to be led to unreal and changeful things. Your thoughts are unreal and changeful. You want to hold the Reality. That is exactly what I say. The thoughts are unreal. Get rid of them. 

D.: I understand now. Yet there is a doubt. “Not a trice can you remain inactive.” How shall I be able to rid myself of thoughts? 

M.: The same Gita says: “Although all actions take place, I am not the doer.” It is like the sun towards the world activities. The Self always remains actionless, whereas thoughts arise and subside. The Self is Perfection; it is immutable; the mind is limited and changeful. You need only to cast off your limitations. Your perfection thus stands revealed. 

D.: Grace is necessary for it. 

M.: Grace is ever present. All that is necessary is that you surrender to It. 

D.: I surrender and pray that even if I go wrong I may be forcibly drawn to it. 

M.: Is this surrender? Surrender to be complete must be unquestioning. 

D.: Yes, I surrender. You say I must dive into the ocean of the Self like a pearl-diver into the sea.

M.: Because you are now thinking that you are out of the ocean of Consciousness. 

D.: I practise pranayama. It generates heat in the body. What should I do? 

M.: The heat will pass away when the mind gains calm 

D.: That is true but most difficult. 

M.: This is again a thought which is an obstacle.

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D.: How does mere life or death here confer mukti? It is difficult to understand. 

M.: Darsanad Abhrasadasi jananat Kamalalaye, Kasyantu maranam muktih smaranad Arunachale. “To see Chidambaram, to be born in Tiruvarur, to die in Benares, or merely to think of Arunachala, is to be assured of Liberation.” Jananat Kamalalaye means “by being born in Kamalalaya”. What is it? It is the Heart. Similarly, Abhrasadasi - Seat of Consciousness. Again, Kasi is the Light of Realisation. Remembering Arunachala completes the verse. It must also be understood in the same sense. 

D.: So bhakti is necessary. 

M.: Everything depends on the outlook. One sees that all born in Tiruvarur, or visiting Chidambaram, or dying in Banares, or contemplating Arunachala, are muktas.

D.: I think of Arunachala, but still I am not a mukta. 

M.: Change of outlook is all that is necessary. See what such a change did for Arjuna. He had the vision, of the Cosmic Self. 

Sri Krishna says: “Gods and saints are eager to see my Cosmic Form. I have not fulfilled their desire. Yet I endow divine sight by which you can see that Form.” Well, having said so, does He show what He is? No. He asks Arjuna to see in Him all that he desires to see. If that were His real form it must be changeless and known for what it is worth. Instead, Arjuna is commanded to see whatever he desires. So where is the Cosmic Form? It must be in Arjuna. Furthermore, Arjuna finds Gods and saints in that form and they are praising the Lord. If the form be withheld from the Gods and saints as said by Krishna, who are they of Arjuna’s vision? 

D.: They must be in his imagination. 

M.: They are there because of Arjuna’s outlook. 

D.: Then the outlook must be changed by God’s Grace. 

M.: Yes. That happens to bhaktas. 

D.: A man dreams of a tiger, takes fright and wakes up. The dream tiger appears to the dream ego who is also frightened. When he wakes up how is it that that ego disappears, and the man wakes up as the waking ego? 

M.: That establishes that the ego is the same. Dream, wakefulness and sleep are passing phases for the same ego. 

D.: It is so difficult to spot the mind. The same difficulty is shared by all. 

M.: You can never find the mind through mind. Pass beyond it in order to find it non-existent. 

D.: Then one must directly go to seek the ego. Is it so? 

M.: That’s it. Mind, ego, intellect are all different names for one single inner organ (antahkarana). The mind is only the aggregate of thoughts. Thoughts cannot exist but for the ego. So all thoughts are pervaded by ego (aham). Seek wherefrom the ‘I’ rises and the other thoughts will disappear.

D.: What remains over cannot be ‘I’, but Pure Consciousness. 

M.: Quite so. You start seeking happiness. On analysis you find that misery is caused by thoughts. They are called the mind. While trying to control the mind you seek the ‘I’ and get fixed in Being-Knowledge-Bliss. 

Another devotee: What then is the mind? 

M.: Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. 

D.: It is avarana (veiling) then. How does this happen? 

M.: To whom is the avarana? It is the same as avidya (ignorance), ego or the mind. 

D.: Avarana means obscuration. Who is obscured? How does it arise? 

M.: The limitation is itself obscuration. No questions will arise if limitations are transcended.

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M.: Real waking lies beyond the three states of waking, dream and sleep

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484

Answer: The answer to this question is contained in the other sheet. Be still and know that I am God. “Stillness” here means “Being free from thoughts”.

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M.: Peace is always present. Get rid of the disturbances to Peace. This Peace is the Self. The thoughts are the disturbances. When free from them, you are Infinite Intelligence, i.e., the Self. There is Perfection and Peace.

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Talk 481. 

Muruganar asked what prajnana is. 

M.: Prajnana (Absolute Knowledge) is that from which vijnana (relative knowledge) proceeds. 

D.: In the state of vijnana one becomes aware of the samvit (cosmic intelligence). But is that suddha samvit aware by itself without the aid of antahkaranas (inner organs)? 

M.: It is so, even logically. 

D.: Becoming aware of samvit in jagrat by vijnana, prajnana is not found self-shining. If so, it must be found in sleep. 

M.: The awareness is at present through antahkaranas. Prajnana is always shining even in sleep. If one is continuously aware in jagrat the awareness will continue in sleep also.

Moreover, it is illustrated thus: A king comes into the hall, sits there and then leaves the place. He did not go into the kitchen. Can one in the kitchen for that reason say, “The king did not come here”? When awareness is found in jagrat it must also be in sleep.

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486

Mantra, dhyana, bhakti, etc. are all aids and finally lead to Swarupa, the Self, which is they themselves.

After a few minutes Maharshi continued: 

Everyone is the Self, indeed infinite. 

Yet each one mistakes the body for the Self. To know anything, illumination is necessary. Such illuminating agency can only be in the form of light which is  however lighting the physical light and darkness. So then that other Light lies beyond the apparent light and darkness. It is itself neither light nor darkness but is said to be Light because It illumines both. It is also Infinite and remains as Consciousness. Consciousness is the Self of which everyone is aware. No one is away from the Self. So each one is Self-realised. Yet what a mystery that no one knows this fundamental fact, and desires to realise the Self? This ignorance is due to the mistaking of the body for the Self. Realisation now consists in getting rid of this false idea that one is not realised. Realisation is not anything newly got. It must be already there in order that it may be permanent. Otherwise Realisation is not worth attempting. After the false notion ‘I-am-the-body’ or ‘I have not realised’ is removed, Supreme Consciousness or the Self alone is left over, which is however called Realisation in the present state of knowledge. However, the truth is that Realisation is eternal and already there, here and now. Finally, Realisation amounts to elimination of ignorance and nothing more or less.

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D.: My profession requires my stay in my place. I cannot remain in the vicinity of sadhus. Can I have realisation even in the absence of sat sanga as necessitated by my circumstances? 

M.: Sat is aham pratyaya saram = the Self of selves. The sadhu is that Self of selves. He is immanent in all. Can anyone remain without the Self? No. So no one is away from sat sanga.

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Talk 485 . 

D.: While engaged in Atma vichara (the investigation of the Self), I fall asleep. What is the remedy for it? 

M.: Do nama-sankirtana 

D.: It is ruled out in sleep. 

M.: True. The practice should be continued while awake. Directly you wake up from sleep, you must resume it. The sleeper does not care for Atma vichara. So he need not practise anything. The waking self desires it and so he must do it. 

In the course of conversation Sri Bhagavan continued: The mind is something mysterious. It consists of satva, rajas and tamas. The latter two give rise to vikshepa. In the satva aspect, it remains pure and uncontaminated. So there are no thoughts there and it is identical with the Self. The mind is like akasa (ether). Just as there are the objects in the akasa, so there are thoughts in the mind. The akasa is the counterpart of the mind and objects are of thought. One cannot hope to measure the universe and study the phenomena. It is impossible. For the objects are mental creations. To measure them is similar to trying to stamp with one’s foot on the head of  the shadow cast by oneself. The farther one moves the farther the shadow does also. So one cannot plant one’s foot on the head of the shadow. (Here Sri Bhagavan related several incidents connected with shadows including the pranks of monkeys and a mirror). A child sees his own shadow and tries to hold the head of the shadow. As he bends and puts out his arm the head moves further. The child struggles more and more. The mother, seeing the struggle, pities the young one. So she takes hold of the young hand and keeps it on his own head and tells the child to observe the head of the shadow caught in the hand. Similarly with the ignorant practiser to study the universe. The universe is only an object created by the mind and has its being in the mind. It cannot be measured as an exterior entity. 

One must reach the Self in order to reach the universe. 

Again people often ask how the mind is controlled. I say to them, “Show me the mind and then you will know what to do.” The fact is that the mind is only a bundle of thoughts. How can you extinguish it by the thought of doing so or by a desire? Your thoughts and desires are part and parcel of the mind. The mind is simply fattened by new thoughts rising up. Therefore it is foolish to attempt to kill the mind by means of the mind. The only way of doing it is to find its source and hold on to it. The mind will then fade away of its own accord. 

Yoga teaches chitta vritti nirodha (control of the activities of the mind). But I say Atma vichara (Self-investigation). 

This is the practical way. Chitta vritti nirodha is brought about in sleep, swoon or by starvation. As soon as the cause is withdrawn there is recrudescence of thoughts. Of what use is it then? In the state of stupor there is peace and no misery. But misery recurs when the stupor is removed. So nirodha (control) is useless and cannot be of lasting benefit. 

How then can the benefit be made lasting? It is by finding the cause of misery. Misery is due to objects. If they are not there, there will be no contingent thoughts and so misery is wiped off. “How will objects cease to be?” is the next question. The shrutis and the sages say that the objects are only mental creations. They have no substantive being. Investigate the matter and ascertain the truth of the statement. The result will be the conclusion that the objective world is in the subjective consciousness. The Self is thus the only Reality which permeates and also envelops the world. Since there is no duality, no thoughts will arise to disturb your peace. 

This is Realisation of the Self. 

The Self is eternal and so also its Realisation. In the course of the discourse Sri Bhagavan also made a few points clearer: 

Abhyasa consists in withdrawal within the Self every time you are disturbed by thought. 

It is not concentration or destruction of the mind but withdrawal into the Self. 

Dhyana, bhakti, japa, etc., are aids to keep out the multiplicity of thoughts. A single thought prevails which too eventually dissolves in the Self. The questioner quoted that the mind starved of ideas amounted to realisation and asked what the experience is in that state. He himself read out a passage from Mr. Brunton that it was indescribable. The answer was there. He again ventured out that it must be like looking through an unsilvered mirror, as contrasted with the present experience corresponding to looking on a silvered mirror. 

Sri Bhagavan said it was a mirror facing another clear mirror, i.e. no reflection.

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