March part 20.

https://selfdefinition.org/ramana/Talks-with-Sri-Ramana-Maharshi--complete.pdf

487

The result will be the conclusion that the objective world is in the subjective consciousness. The Self is thus the only Reality which permeates and also envelops the world. 

Since there is no duality, no thoughts will arise to disturb your peace. This is Realisation of the Self. 

The Self is eternal and so also its Realisation. In the course of the discourse Sri Bhagavan also made a few points clearer:

  Abhyasa consists in withdrawal within the Self every time you are disturbed by thought.

It is not concentration or destruction of the mind but withdrawal into the Self. 

Dhyana, bhakti, japa, etc., are aids to keep out the multiplicity of thoughts. A single thought prevails which too eventually dissolves in the Self. The questioner quoted that the mind starved of ideas amounted to realisation and asked what the experience is in that state. He himself read out a passage from Mr. Brunton that it was indescribable. The answer was there. He again ventured out that it must be like looking through an unsilvered mirror, as contrasted with the present experience corresponding to looking on a silvered mirror. Sri Bhagavan said it was a mirror facing another clear mirror, i.e., no reflection.

...........

M.: If it is anything objective the way can be shown objectively. This is subjective. 

D.: But I do not understand. 

M.: What! Do you not understand that you are? 

D.: Please tell me the way. 

M.: Is it necessary to show the way in the interior of your own home? This is within you. 

D.: What do you advise me to do? 

M.: Why should you do anything and what should you do? Only keep quiet. Why not do so? Each one must do according to his own state. 

D.: Please tell me what is suitable to me. I want to hear from you. (No answer.) 

....................

M.: 

Who is this ‘I’? 

It cannot be the body nor the mind as we have seen before. 

This ‘I’ is the one who experiences the waking, dream and sleep states. The three states are changes which do not affect the individual. The experiences are like pictures passing on a screen in the cinema. The appearance and disappearance of the pictures do not affect the screen. So also, the three states alternate with one another leaving the Self unaffected. The waking and the dream states are creations of the mind. So the Self covers all. To know that the Self remains happy in its perfection is Self-Realisation. Its use lies in the realisation of Perfection and thus of Happiness.

M.: The Self was pointed out to you to cover the universe and also transcend it. The world cannot remain apart from the Self. If the realisation of such Self be called selfishness that selfishness must cover the world also. It is nothing contemptible.

.....

D.: Does not the realised man continue to live just like a non-realised being? 

M.: Yes, with this difference that the realised being does not see the world as being apart from the Self, he possesses true knowledge and the internal happiness of being perfect, whereas the other person sees the world apart, feels imperfection and is miserable. Otherwise their physical actions are similar.

.........

494

M.: Is the cinema screen affected by a scene of fire burning or sea rising? So it is with the Self. 

The idea that I am the body or the mind is so deep that one cannot get over it even if convinced otherwise. 

One experiences a dream and knows it to be unreal on waking. Waking experience is unreal in other states. So each state contradicts the others. They are therefore mere changes taking place in the seer, or phenomena appearing in the Self, which is unbroken and remains unaffected by them. Just as the waking, dream and sleep states are phenomena, so also birth, growth and death are phenomena in the Self. which continues to be unbroken and unaffected. Birth and death are only ideas. They pertain to the body or the mind. The Self exists before the birth of this body and will remain after the death of this body. So it is with the series of bodies taken up in succession. The Self is immortal. The phenomena are changeful and appear mortal. The fear of death is of the body. It is not true of the Self. Such fear is due to ignorance. Realisation means True Knowledge of the Perfection and Immortality of the Self. Mortality is only an idea and cause of misery. You get rid of it by realising the Immortal nature of the Self.

The same lady continued: If the world is only a dream, how should it be harmonised with the Eternal Reality? 

M.: The harmony consists in the realisation of its inseparateness from the Self.

.......

Talk 489. 

Another group of visitors was asking the method of Realisation. In the course of a reply Sri Bhagavan said: “Holding the mind and investigating it is advised for a beginner. But what is mind after all? It is a projection of the Self. See for whom it appears and from where it rises. The ‘I-thought’ will be found to be the root-cause. Go deeper; the ‘I-thought’ disappears and there is an infinitely expanded ‘I-consciousness’. That is otherwise called Hiranyagarbha. When it puts on limitations it appears as individuals.”

.....

Talk 490. 

The English lady desired to have a private talk with Sri Bhagavan. She began, “I am returning to England. I leave this place this evening. I want to have the happiness of Self-Realisation in my home. Of course it is not easy in the West. But I shall strive for it. What is the way to do it?” 

M.: If Realisation be something outside you a way can be shown consistent with the safety of the individual, his capacity. etc. Then the questions if it is realisable and, if so, in what time - will also arise. But here, Realisation is of the Self. You cannot remain without the Self. The Self is always realised. But only you do not recognise the fact. The Realisation is now obscured by the present world idea. The world is now seen outside you and the idea associated with it obscures your real nature. All that is needed is to overcome this ignorance and then the Self stands revealed. No special effort is necessary to realise the Self. All efforts are for eliminating the present obscuration of the Truth. A lady is wearing a necklace round her neck. She forgets it, imagines it to be lost and impulsively looks for it here, there and everywhere. Not finding it, she asks her friends if they have found it anywhere, until one kind friend points to her neck and tells her to feel the necklace round the neck. 

The seeker does so and feels happy that the necklace is found. Again, when she meets her other friends, they ask her if her lost necklace was found. 

She says ‘yes’ to them, as if it were lost and later recovered. Her happiness on re-discovering it round her neck is the same as if some lost property was recovered. In fact she never lost it nor recovered it. And yet she was once miserable and now she is happy. 

So also with the realisation of the Self. The Self is always realised. The Realisation is now obscured. When the veil is removed the person feels happy at rediscovering the ever-realised Self. The ever-present Realisation appears to be a new Realisation. Now, what should one do to overcome the present ignorance. Be eager to have the true knowledge. As this eagerness grows the wrong knowledge diminishes in strength until it finally disappears.

.......

D.: The other day you were saying that there is no awareness in deep sleep. But I have on rare occasions become aware of sleep even in that state.

 M.: Now, of these three factors, the awareness, sleep and knowledge of it, the first one is changeless. That awareness, which cognised sleep as a state, now sees the world also in the waking state. The negation of the world is the state of sleep. The world may appear or disappear - that is to say, one may be awake or asleep - the awareness is unaffected. It is one continuous whole over which the three states of waking, dream and sleep pass. Be that awareness even now. That is the Self - that is Realisation - there is Peace - there is Happiness.

.............

D.: But all the disciples of a guru are not of the same degree of advancement. There are found lapses in a few cases. Who is responsible for such lapses?

M.: There is no connection between Self-Realisation and individual predispositions (samskara). It is not always possible to live up to the ideal of the Guru

..................504......................

D.: Although I understand it intellectually, I cannot realise the Self.

 M.: Why should this thought disturb your present state of realisation. 

D.: The Self is One, but yet I do not find myself free from the present trouble. 

M.: Who says this? Is it the Self which is only one? The question contradicts itself.

 D.: Grace is necessary for realisation. 

M.: Inasmuch as you, being a man, now understand that there is a higher power guiding you, it is due to Grace. Grace is within you. Isvaro gururatmeti (Isvara, Guru and the Self are synonymous).

.......

Talk 499. 

The Swami of Sri Ramakrishna Mission had more questions to ask: Swamiji, I went up the hill to see the asramas in which you lived in your youth. I have also read your life. May I know if you did not then feel that there is God to whom you should pray or that you should practise something in order to reach this state? 

M.: Read the life and you will understand. Jnana and ajnana are of the same degree of truth; that is, both are imagined by the ignorant; that is not true from the standpoint of the Jnani. 

D.: Is a Jnani capable or likely to commit sins?

 M.: An ajnani sees someone as a Jnani and identifies him with the body. Because he does not know the Self and, mistakes his body for the Self, he extends the same mistake to the state of the Jnani. The Jnani is therefore considered to be the physical frame.

Again since the ajnani, though he is not the doer, yet imagines himself to be the doer and considers the actions of the body his own, he thinks the Jnani to be similarly acting when the body is active. But the Jnani himself knows the Truth and is not confounded. The state of a Jnani cannot be determined by the ajnani and therefore the question troubles only the ajnani and never does it arise for the Jnani. If he is a doer he must determine the nature of the actions. The Self cannot be the doer. Find out who is the doer and the Self is revealed.

....

D.: Yes. I quite see it. Moreover, advaita cannot be practised in one’s dealings with the Guru. For, consistently with it, he cannot receive instructions. 

M.: Yes, the Guru is within and not without. A Tamil saint has said, “O Guru! always abiding within me, but manifesting now in human form only to guide and protect me!” What is within as the Self manifests in due course as Guru in human shape.

..........

M.: Effort is needed so long as there is mind. The state of emptiness has been the bone of contention in all philosophies.

508

M.: True. See if you are the seeker. The Self is often mistaken for the knower. Is there not the Self in deep sleep, i.e., nescience? Therefore the Self is beyond knower and knowledge. These doubts are in the realm of mind. To speak from this point of view, the advice is to keep the mind clear, and when rajas and tamas are wiped off, then the satva mind alone exists. So the ‘I’ vanishes in the satva (oonadhal kan). 

Jnana chakshus does not mean that it is an organ of perception like the other sense-organs. Jnanameva chakshuh. Television, etc., are not functions of jnana chakshus. So long as there is a subject and also an object it is only relative knowledge. Jnana lies beyond relative knowledge. It is absolute. The Self is the source of subject and object. Now ignorance prevailing, the subject is taken to be the source. The subject is the knower and forms one of the triads whose components cannot exist independent of one another. So the subject or the knower cannot be the ultimate Reality. Reality lies beyond subject and object. When realised there will be no room for doubt. “Bhidyate hridayagranthih chhidyante sarvasamsayah.” The heart knot is snapped; doubts are set at rest. That is called pratyaksha and not what you are thinking of. 

Avidya nasa is alone Self-Realisation. 

Self-Realisation is only owpacharika. 

Self Realisation is only a euphemism for elimination of ignorance.

....511

D.: How can unerring rectitude be ensured for the worker? 

M.: If he has surrendered himself to God or to Guru the Power to which he had surrendered will take him on the right course. 

The worker need no longer concern himself about the rectitude or otherwise of the course. The doubt will arise only if he fails to obey the Master in all details.

.....

Your mind is outgoing. Because of that tendency it sees objects as being outside and the Master among them. But the Truth is different. The Master is the Self. Turn the mind within and you will find the objects within. You will also realise that it is the Master who is your very Self and there is nothing but Him.

,........

Because you identify yourself with the body you have accepted objects as being outside you. But are you the body? You are not. You are the Self. There are all the objects and the whole universe. Nothing can escape the Self. How then can you move away from the Master who is your very Self? Suppose your body moves from place to place; does it ever move away from your Self? Similarly, you can never be without the Master.

.....

Sri Bhagavan: The Master being the Self. Grace is inseparable from the Self.

.............

M.: Is there any moment when you have not realised the Self? Can you ever be apart from the Self? You are always That.

........514

M.: It is right. 

Reality is only one and that is the Self.

 All the rest are mere Phenomena in it, of it and by it. 

The seer, the objects and the sight, all are the Self only. 

Can anyone see or hear, leaving the Self aside? 

What difference does it make to see or hear anyone in close proximity or over enormous distance? The organs of sight and hearing are needed in both cases; so also the mind is required. None of them can be dispensed with in either case. There is dependence one way or another. Why then should there be a glamour about clairvoyance or clairaudience? 

Moreover, what is acquired will also be lost in due course. They can never be permanent. 

The only permanent thing is Reality; and that is the Self.

 You say “I am”, “I am going”, “I am speaking”, “I am working”, etc. Hyphenate “I am” in all of them.

 Thus I - AM. That is the abiding and fundamental Reality. 

This truth was taught by God to Moses: “I Am that I-Am”. 

“Be still and know that I-Am God.” 

so “I-AM” is God. 

You know that you are. 

You cannot deny your existence at any moment of time. 

For you must be there in order to deny it. 

This (Pure Existence) is understood by stilling your mind. 

The mind is the outgoing faculty of the individual. 

If that is turned within, it becomes still in course of time and that “I-Am” alone prevails. 

“I-Am” is the whole Truth.

......

na karmana na prajaya dhanena tyagenaike amritatvamanasuh 

parena nakam nihitam guhayam, 

vibhrajate yadyatayo visanti vedanta vijnana sunishchitarthah sanyasayogadyatayah shuddha satvah te brahmaloke tu parantakale paramritat parimuchyanti sarve dahram vipapam paravesmabhutum yat pundarikam puramadhya samstham tatrapi dahram gaganam visokastasmin yadantastadupasitavyam yo vedadau svarah prokto vedante cha pratishtitah tasya prakritilinasya yah parah sa Mahesvarah 

[Deathlessness is not obtained through action or begetting offspring or wealth. Some attain that state through renunciation. The Sages (that have conquered the senses) attain that Sat which is more supreme than Heaven and shining all alone in the Heart. The adepts who by renunciation and one-pointedness are pure in heart and have known the certainty of Truth by the special knowledge proclaimed by Vedanta, get fully released in the Brahmaloka from the causal Maya at the dissolution of the body. That alone which shines as the tiny Akasa void of sorrow, in the lotus heart, the tiny seat of the spotless Supreme in the (inner) core of the body is worthy of worship. He alone is the Supreme Lord, who is beyond the Primal Word which is the beginning and end of the Veda and in which merges the creative Cause].

......

Talk 513. 

Major Chadwick again gave his versified translation of the mantra for Sri Bhagavan to read. Sri Bhagavan softly spoke of the interpretation of the Bhashyakara and further explained the same. To consider the Brahmaloka as a region is also admissible. That is what the pouraniks say and many other schools also imply it by expounding kramamukti (liberation by degrees). 

But the Upanishads speak of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) as in 

Na tasya prana utkramanti; ihaiva praleeyante . 

The pranas do not rise up; they lose themselves here.

 So Brahmaloka will be Realisation of Brahman (Brahmasakshatkara). It is a state and not a region. In the latter case, paramritat must be properly understood. It is para inasmuch as avyakrita is the causal Energy transcending the universe, amrita because it persists until the Self is realised. So that paramritat will mean avyakrita. The kramamukti (liberation by degrees) school say that the upasaka goes to the region of his Ishta Devata which is Brahmaloka to him. The souls passing to all other lokas return to be reborn. But those who have gained the Brahmaloka do not. Moreover those desirous of a particular loka can by proper methods gain the same. Whereas Brahmaloka cannot be gained so long as there is any desire left in the person. Desirelessness alone will confer the loka on him. His desirelessness signifies the absence of the incentive for rebirth. The age of Brahma is practically immeasurable. The presiding deity of the loka is said to have a definite period of life. When he passes away his loka also is dissolved. The inmates are emancipated at the same  time, irrespective of the different nature of individual consciousness in them prior to Self-realisation.

 The kramamukti school objects to the idea of sadyomukti (immediate liberation) because the Jnani is supposed to lose body-consciousness at the same time that ignorance is dispelled but he continues to live in the body.

 They ask, “How does the body function without the mind?” The answer is somewhat elaborate: Knowledge (jnana) is not incompatible with ignorance (ajnana) because the Self in purity is found to remain along with ignorance-seed (ajnana beeja) in sleep. 

But the incompatibility arises only in the waking and dream states. Ajnana has two aspects: avarana (veiling) and vikshepa (multiplicity). Of these, avarana (veiling) denotes the veil hiding the Truth. That prevails in sleep. Multiplicity (vikshepa) is activity in different times. This gives rise to diversity and prevails in waking and dream states (jagrat and svapna). If the veil, i.e., avarana is lifted, the Truth is perceived. It is lifted for a Jnani and so his karana sarira (causal body) ceases to exist. Vikshepa alone continues for him. Even so, it is not the same for a Jnani as it is for an ajnani. The ajnani has all kinds of vasanas, i.e., kartrtva (doership) and bhoktrtva (enjoyership), whereas the Jnani has ceased to be doer (karta). Thus only one kind of vasana obtains for him. That too is very weak and does not overpower him, because he is always aware of the Sat-Chit-Ananda nature of the Self. The tenuous bhoktrtva vasana is the only remnant of the mind left in the Jnani and he therefore appears to be living in the body. This explanation when applied to the mantra amounts to this: A Jnani has his karana sarira destroyed; the sthula sarira (gross body) has no effect on him and is for all practical purposes destroyed too. The sukshma sarira (subtle body) alone remains. It is otherwise called ativahika sarira. It is this which is held by all persons after the physical body is given up. And with this they traverse to other lokas until another suitable physical body is taken. The Jnani is supposed to move in Brahmaloka with this sukshma sarira. Then that is also dissolved and he passes to final Liberation. The whole explanation is meant only for the onlooker. The Jnani himself will never raise such questions. He knows by his experience that he is not bound by any kind of limitations.

.........525..................end......................................................................