Talk 98.
Bhagavan further explained:
The Self is the Heart.
The Heart is self luminous. Light arises from the Heart and reaches the brain, which is the seat of the mind. The world is seen with the mind, that is, by the reflected light of the Self. It is perceived with the aid of the mind. When the mind is illumined it is aware of the world. When it is not itself so illumined, it is not aware of the world.
If the mind is turned in towards the source of light, objective knowledge ceases and Self alone shines forth as the Heart.
The moon shines by the reflected light of the sun. When the sun has set, the moon is useful for revealing objects. When the sun has risen, no one needs the moon, although the pale disc of the moon is visible in the sky. So it is with the mind and the Heart. The mind is useful because of its reflected light. It is used for seeing objects. When it is turned inwards, the source of illumination shines forth by itself, and the mind remains dim and useless like the moon in day-time.
Talk 99.
A sanyasi asked:
It is said that the Self is beyond the mind and yet the realisation is with the mind.
Mano na manute, Manasa na matam, and Manasaivedamaptavyam (The mind cannot think it. It cannot be thought of by the mind and the mind alone can realise it). How are these contradictions to be reconciled?
M.: Atman is realised with Mruta Manas. Dead mind.
i.e. Mind devoid of thoughts and turned inward.
Then the mind sees its own source
and becomes That.
It is not as the subject perceiving an object.
When the room is dark a lamp is necessary to illumine and eyes to cognise objects. But when the sun is risen there is no need of a lamp, and the objects are seen; and to see the sun no lamp is necessary, it is enough that you turn your eyes towards the self luminous sun.
Similarly with the mind. To see the objects the reflected light of the mind is necessary.
To see the Heart it is enough that the mind is turned towards it.
Then the mind loses itself and the Heart shines forth.
b.......
.........It is only sarva bhutesu cha atmanam sarva bhutani cha atmani. (The Self in all and all in the Self.)
M.: That contains the whole truth. Even this is oupacharika (indirect). There is in fact nothing but the Atman. The world is only a projection of the mind. The mind originates from the Atman. So Atman alone is the One Being.
D.: Yet it is difficult to realise.
M.: There is nothing to realise. It is nitya suddha buddha mukta (the Eternal, pure, aware and liberated) state. It is natural and eternal.
There is nothing new to gain.
On the other hand a man must loose his ignorance. That is all.
This ignorance must be traced to its origin.
To whom is this ignorance?
Of what is one ignorant?
There are the subject and the object. Such duality is characteristic of the mind. The mind is from the Atman.
......
D.: Yes. Ignorance itself cannot exist. (He finally surrendered saying, “Just as a doctor learns what is wrong with the patient and treats him accordingly, so may Sri Bhagavan do with me”. He also said that he had lost all inclination to study books and learn from them.)
Talk 105.
M.: Yena asrutam srutam bhavati (Chandogya Upanishad).
(By knowing which, all the unknown becomes known.)
Madhavaswami, Bhagavan’s attendant: Are there nine methods of teaching the Mahavakya ‘Tattvamasi’ in the Chandogya Upanishad?
M.: No. Not so. The method is only one. Uddalaka started teaching Sat eva Somya (There is only Being ) illustrating it with Svetaketu’s fast.
(1) Sat, the Being in the individual, is made obvious by the fast.
(2) This (sat) Being is similar in all, as honey gathered from different flowers.
(3) There is no difference in the sat of individuals as illustrated by the state of deep sleep. The question arises - if so, why does not each know it in sleep?
(4) Because the individuality is lost. There is only sat left.
Illustration: rivers lost in the ocean. If lost, is there sat?
(5) Surely - as when a tree is pruned it grows again. That is a sure sign of its life. But is it there even in that dormant condition?
(6) Yes, take the instance of salt and water. The presence of the salt in water is subtle. Though invisible to the eye it is recognised by other senses. How is one to know it? What is the other means?
(7) By enquiry, as the man left in the Gandhara forest regained his home.
(8) In evolution and involution, in manifestation and resolution, sat alone exists. Tejah parasyam, devatayam (the light merges in the Supreme).
(9) An insincere man is hurt by the touch of fire test. His insincerity is brought out by fire.
Sincerity is Self-evident. A true man or a Self realised man remains happy, without being affected by the false appearances (namely the world, birth and death, etc.), whereas the false or ignorant man is miserable.
113
Mr. C. R. Wright, his secretary, asked: How shall I realise God?
M.: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external?
D.: What is this Self again?
M.: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. You always exist.
The Be-ing is the Self.
‘I am’ is the name of God.
Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement “I am that I am” in Exodus (Chp. 3).
There are other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham.
But none is so direct as the name Jehovah = I Am.
The Absolute Being is what is - It is the Self.
It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self.
.....
D.: So it is. How to get Bliss?
M.: Bliss is not something to be got. On the other hand you are always Bliss. This desire is born of the sense of incompleteness. To whom is this sense of incompleteness?
Enquire. In deep sleep you were blissful: Now you are not so.
What has interposed between that Bliss and this non-bliss? It is the ego. Seek its source and find you are Bliss. There is nothing new to get.
You have, on the other hand, to get rid of your ignorance which makes you think that you are other than Bliss. For whom is this ignorance? It is to the ego. Trace the source of the ego.
Then the ego is lost and Bliss remains over. It is eternal. You are That, here and now.… That is the master key for solving all doubts. The doubts arise in the mind. The mind is born of the ego. The ego rises from the Self.
Search the source of the ego and the Self is revealed.
That alone remains. The universe is only expanded Self. It is not different from the Self.
D.: What is the best way of living?
M.: It differs according as one is a Jnani or ajnani.
A Jnani does not find anything different or separate from the Self.
All are in the Self.
It is wrong to imagine that there is the world, that there is a body in it and that you dwell in the body.
If the Truth is known, the universe and what is beyond it will be found to be only in the Self.
The outlook differs according to the sight of the person. The sight is from the eye. The eye must be located somewhere. If you are seeing with the gross eyes you find others gross.
If with subtle eyes (i.e., the mind) others appear subtle.
If the eye becomes the Self, the Self being infinite, the eye is infinite.
There is nothing else to see different from the Self.
He thanked Maharshi.
He was told that the best way of thanking is to remain always as the Self.
Talk 107.
Later the Yogi asked: How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be effected? What are the instructions to be given them?
M.: They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and according to the spiritual ripeness of their minds. There cannot be any instruction en masse.
D.: Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?
M.: Suffering is the way for Realisation of God.
D.: Should He not ordain differently?
M.: It is the way.
.....
D.: How to remove my own ‘drowsiness’?
M.: Whose ‘drowsiness’ is it? Enquire. Turn within. Turn all your enquiries towards search for Self. The force set up within you will operate on others also.
117
....
M.: Samadhi transcends mind and speech and cannot be described. For example, the state of deep slumber cannot be described.
Samadhi state can still less be explained.
M.: Consciousness and unconsciousness are only modes of the mind. Samadhi transcends the mind.
D.: Still you can say what it is like.
M.: You will know only when you are in samadhi.
.
125
M.: There is no gaining of anything new.
All that is required is to rid the Self of ignorance. This ignorance is the identification of the Self with the non-Self.
....
Sreyo hi jnanam abhyasat jnanat dhyanam, dhyanat karmaphala tyagah.
Here jnana stands for knowledge without practice;
abhyasa stands for practice without knowledge;
dhyana stands for practice with knowledge.
“Knowledge without practice accompanying it is superior to practice without knowledge. Practice with knowledge is superior to knowledge without practice accompanying it. Karmaphala tyagah Nishkama karma as of a Jnani - action without desire - is superior to knowledge with practice.”
......
128
D.: What is the difference between yoga and surrender?
M.: Surrender is Bhakti Yoga. To reach the source of the ‘I-thought’ is the destruction of the ego, is the attainment of the goal, is prapatti (surrender), jnana, etc.
Talk 130.
Lakshman Brahmachari from Sri Ramakrishna Mission asked:
Enquiry of ‘Who am I?’ or of the ‘I-thought’ being itself a thought, how can it be destroyed in the process?
M.: When Sita was asked who was her husband among the rishis (Rama himself being present there as a rishi) in the forest by the wives of the rishis, she denied each one as he was pointed out to her, but simply hung down her head when Rama was pointed out.
Her silence was eloquent. Similarly, the Vedas also are eloquent in ‘neti’ - ‘neti’ (not this - not this) and then remain silent. Their silence is the Real State. This is the meaning of exposition by silence. When the source of the ‘I thought’ is reached it vanishes and what remains over is the Self.
D.: Patanjali Yoga Sutras speak of identification.
M.: Identification with the Supreme is only the other name for the destruction of the ego.
...
Talk 131.
Mr. Subba Rao asked: What is mukhya prana (the chief prana)?
M.: It is that from which the ego and the prana rise. It is sometimes called Kundalini. Consciousness is not born at any time, it remains eternal. But ego is born; so also the other thoughts. Associated with the absolute consciousness they shine forth; not otherwise.
D.: What is moksha (liberation)?
M.: Moksha is to know that you were not born.
“Be still and know that I am God.” To be still is not to think. Know, and not think, is the word.
D.: There are said to be six organs of different colours in the chest, of which the heart is said to be two finger-breadths to the right of the middle line. But the Heart is also formless. Should we then imagine it to have a shape and meditate on it?
M.: No. Only the quest “Who am I?” is necessary.
What remains all through deep sleep and waking is the same. But in waking there is unhappiness and the effort to remove it. Asked who wakes up from sleep you say ‘I’.
Now you are told to hold fast to this ‘I’.
If it is done the eternal Being will reveal Itself.
Investigation of ‘I’ is the point and not meditation on the heart-centre.
There is nothing like within or without. Both mean either the same thing or nothing. Of course there is also the practice of meditation on the heart centre.
It is only a practice and not investigation.
Only the one who meditates on the heart can remain aware when the mind ceases to be active and remains still;
whereas those who meditate on other centres cannot be so aware but infer that the mind was still only after it becomes again active.
D.: Show me that Grace which puts an end to all this trouble. I have not come here to argue. I want only to learn.
M.: Learn first what you are. This requires no shastras, no scholarship. This is simple experience.
The state of being is now and here all along.
You have lost hold of yourself and are asking others for guidance. The purpose of philosophy is to turn you inward.
“If you know your Self, no evil can come to you. Since you asked me I have taught you.” The ego comes up only holding you (the Self). Hold yourself and the ego will vanish. Until then the sage will be saying, “There is.” - The ignorant will be asking “Where?”
D.: The crux of the problem lies in “Know Thyself.”
M.: Yes. Quite so.
Talk 134.
A question about the Heart was raised. Sri Bhagavan said that one should seek the Self and realise it. The Heart will play its part automatically. The seat of realisation is the Heart. It cannot be said to be either in or out.
....................
Sam: How to meet the Guru?
A: by intense meditation.
See below.
.................
D.: Is there any way to meet the appointed Guru for each?
M.: Intense meditation brings it about.
D.: What is the experience of samadhi?
M.: It is as it is. For onlookers it may seem to be a swoon. Even to the practiser it may appear so in the early experiences. After a few repeated experiences it will be all right.
D.: Do they soothe nadis or do they excite them by such experiences?
M.: They are excited at first. By continued experience it becomes common and the man is no longer excited.
D.: Proceeding on safe lines there should be no unpleasantness. Excitement is uncongenial to smooth being and working.
M.: A wandering mind is on the wrong way; only a devotional mind is on the right way.
Talk 139.
Mr. Ellappa Chettiar, a Member of the Legislative Council, from Salem, asked: “Is it enough to introvert the mind or should we meditate on ‘I am Brahman’?”
M.: To introvert the mind is the prime thing. The Buddhists consider the flow of ‘I’ thought to be Liberation; whereas we say that such flow proceeds from its underlying substratum - the only - Reality. Why should one be meditating ‘I am Brahman’?
Only the annihilation of ‘I’ is Liberation.
But it can be gained only by keeping the ‘I-I’ always in view. So the need for the investigation of the ‘I’ thought. If the ‘I’ is not let go, no blank can result to the seeker. Otherwise meditation will end in sleep. There is only one ‘I’ all along, but what arises up from time to time is the mistaken ‘I-thought’; whereas the intuitive ‘I’ always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest.
The birth of the gross body does not amount to one’s own birth, on the other hand, the birth of the ego is one’s own birth. For liberation, nothing new remains to be gained. It is the original state and continues unchanged too.
Talk 140.
D.: What is reality?
M.: Reality must be always real. It is not with forms and names.
That which underlies these is the Reality.
It underlies limitations, being itself limitless. It is not bound. It underlies unrealities, itself being real. Reality is that which is. It is as it is. It transcends speech, beyond the expressions, e.g., existence, non-existence, etc.
Talk 141. pg 137
The same gentleman later, after quoting a verse from Kaivalya, asked: “Can jnana be lost after being once attained?”
M.: Dnyana, once revealed, takes time to steady itself.
The Self is certainly within the direct experience of everyone, but not as one imagines it to be.
It is only as it is. This Experience is samadhi.
Just as fire remains without scorching against incantations or other devices but scorches otherwise, so also the Self remains veiled by vasanas and reveals itself when there are no vasanas.
Owing to the fluctuation of the vasanas, Dnyana takes time to steady itself.
Unsteady Dnyana is not enough to check rebirths.
Dnyana cannot remain unshaken side by side with vasanas.
True, that in the proximity of a great master, the vasanas will cease to be active, the mind becomes still and samadhi results,
similar to fire not scorching because of other devices.
Thus the disciple gains true knowledge and right experience in the presence of the master.
To remain unshaken in it further efforts are necessary.
He will know it to be his real Being and thus be liberated even while alive.
Samadhi with closed eyes is certainly good, but one must go further until it is realised that actionlesness and action are not hostile to each other.
Fear of loss of samadhi while one is active is the sign of ignorance.
Samadhi must be the natural life of everyone.
There is a state beyond our efforts or effortlessness.
Until it is realised effort is necessary.
After tasting such Bliss, even once one will repeatedly try to regain it.
Having once experienced the Bliss of Peace no one would like to be out of it or engaged himself otherwise.
It is as difficult for a Dnyani to engage in thoughts
as it is for an adnyani to be free from thought.
The common man says that he does not know himself; he thinks many thoughts and cannot remain without thinking.
Any kind of activity does not affect a Jnani; his mind remains ever in eternal Peace.
....
Talk 142.
Mr. Prakasa Rao from Bezwada: Does not illusion become inoperative even before identity with Brahman results (Brahmakaravritti)? Or does it persist even afterwards?
M.: Illusion will not persist after vasanas are annihilated.
In the interval between the knowledge of the identity and annihilation of vasanas, there will be illusion.
Talk 143.
Mr. P. Brunton asked Sri Bhagavan if the Hill here is hollow.
M.: The puranas say so.
When it is said that the Heart is a cavity, penetration into it proves it to be an expanse of light. Similarly the Hill is one of light. The caves, etc., are covered up by the Light.
D.: Are there caves inside?
M.: In visions I have seen caves, cities with streets, etc., and a whole world in it.
D.: Are there Siddhas too in it?
M.: All the Siddhas are reputed to be there.
D.: Are there only Siddhas or others also?
M.: Just like this world.
D.: Siddhas are said to be in the Himalayas.
M.: Kailas is on the Himalayas: it is the abode of Siva. Whereas this Hill is Siva Himself. All the paraphernalia of His abode must also be where He Himself is.
D.: Does Bhagavan believe that the Hill is hollow, etc.?
M.: Everything depends on the viewpoint of the individual. You yourself have seen hermitages, etc., on this Hill in a vision. You have described such in your book.
D.: Yes. It was on the surface of the Hill. The vision was within me.
M.: That is exactly so. Everything is within one’s Self. To see the world, there must be a spectator. There could be no world without the Self. The Self is all-comprising. In fact Self is all. There is nothing besides the Self.
D.: What is the mystery of this Hill?
M.: Just as you have said in Secret Egypt, “The mystery of the pyramid is the mystery of the Self,” so also the mystery of this Hill is the mystery of the Self.
Maj. Chadwick: I do not know if the Self is different from the ego.
M.: How were you in your deep sleep?
D.: I do not know.
M.: Who does not know? Is it not the waking Self? Do you deny your existence in your deep sleep?
D.: I was and I am; but I do not know who was in deep sleep.
M.: Exactly. The man awake says that he did not know anything in the state of sleep. Now he sees the objects and knows that he is there; whereas in deep sleep there were no objects, no spectator, etc.
The same one who is now speaking was in deep sleep also. What is the difference between these two states? There are objects and play of senses now which were not in sleep. A new entity, the ego, has risen up in the meantime, it plays through the senses, sees the objects, confounds itself with the body and says that the Self is the ego. In reality, what was in deep sleep continues to exist now too. The Self is changeless. It is the ego that has come between. That which rises and sets is the ego; that which remains changeless is the Self.
D.: What is the astral body?
M.: Do you not have a body in your dream? Is it not different from the recumbent body on the bed?
D.: Do we survive after death? Does the astral body outlive physical death?
M.: Just as in dreams you wake up after several novel experiences, so also after physical death another body is found and so on.
D.: They say that the astral body lives for forty years after death.
M.: In the present body you say the dream body is astral. Did you say so in the dream body? What is astral now would appear real then, the present body itself is astral according to that viewpoint. What is the difference between one astral body and another? There is no difference between the two.
Mr. P. Brunton: There are degrees of reality.
M.: To say the dream body is unreal now, and to say that this body was unreal in the dream, does not denote degrees of reality. In deep sleep there is no experience of the body at all. There is always only one and that is the Self.
D.: So Intuition alone matters; Intuition develops also.
M.: Those who have discovered great Truths have done so in the still depths of the Self.
The ego is like one’s shadow thrown on the ground. If one attempts to bury it, it will be foolish. The Self is only one. If limited it is the ego.
If unlimited it is Infinite and is the Reality.
The bubbles are different from one another and numerous, but the ocean is only one.
Similarly the egos are many, whereas the Self is one and only one. When told that you are not the ego, realise the Reality.
Why do you still identify yourself with the ego? It is like saying, “Don’t think of the monkey while taking medicine” - it is impossible. Similarly it happens with common folk.
When the Reality is mentioned why do you continue to meditate Sivoham or Aham Brahmasmi?
The significance must be traced and understood.
It is not enough to repeat the bare words or think of them.
Reality is simply the loss of the ego.
Destroy the ego by seeking its identity.
Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. This is the direct method.
Whereas all other methods are done, only retaining the ego.
In those paths there arise so many doubts and the eternal question remains to be tackled finally.
But in this method the final question is the only one and it is raised from the very beginning.
No sadhanas are necessary for engaging in this quest.
There is no greater mystery than this - viz. we ourselves being the Reality we seek to gain Reality.
We think that there is something hiding our Reality and that it must be destroyed before the Reality is gained. It is ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you laugh is also here and now.
D.: So it is a great game of pretending?
M.: Yes.
In Yoga Vasishtha it is said,
“What is Real is hidden from us, but what is false, is revealed as true.”
We are actually experiencing the Reality only. Yet, we do not know it.
Is it not a wonder of wonders?
The quest “Who am I?” is the axe with which to cut off the ego.
Talk 147.
In answer to a Canarese Sanyasi, Sri Bhagavan said:
There are different grades of mind.
Realisation is of Perfection. It cannot be comprehended by the mind.
Sarvajnatva (the state of all-knowing) is to be sarvam (the all).
‘The all’ pertains only to the mind. The known and unknown together form ‘the all’.
After transcending the mind you remain as the Self.
The present knowledge is only of limitation.
That Knowledge is unlimited.
Being so it cannot be comprehended by this knowledge.
Cease to be a knower, then there is perfection.
..........144.........................end..........
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