Talks with Ramana part 1 is Sep 2, 2019
http://athma-spiritualbliss.blogspot.com/2012/08/athma-vidya-vilasa-of-avadhootha.html
From Atma Vidya Vilasa;
Only some exceptional
individuals who have acquired the necessary qualifications
such as total detachment etc. can attain to self knowledge.
The wise man, having cast off his natural propensities born of prakriti, having realized his real nature as Sat,
Chith and Ananda, rejoices having attained to high
state of bliss by a mere compassionate glance of the
great teacher. 7.
great teacher. 7.
He wanders about with his desires crushed and with his pride, self-esteem and envy discarded, realising in his
mind that this universe in its entirety is unsubstantial
and of the nature of Maya alone. 12.
mind that this universe in its entirety is unsubstantial
and of the nature of Maya alone. 12.
The yogi, free of (all) burdens, rejoices in the bliss within,knowing for certain that, in reality, there is
no trace of Maya or any of it's effects in the pure Self. 13.
no trace of Maya or any of it's effects in the pure Self. 13.
He sports like a child without any idea of `I' or `you',
immersed in the ocean of pure happiness, (innocently)
delighted at the various actions of (worldly) men. 14.
immersed in the ocean of pure happiness, (innocently)
delighted at the various actions of (worldly) men. 14.
Having discarded the (illusory) bondage of karma and delighting in the Atman,the prince of sanyasis wanders
about in the outskirts of the jungle as if he were an idiot,like a blind or deaf person. 15.
Having skillfully caught the fickle deer of his mind with the net of enquiry, he, the unique one, reposes in his own abode, tired of hunting in the forests of the Vedas. 23.
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M.: All these are the symptoms of exceedingly subtle modes of mind (vrittis).
Without duality they cannot remain.
Samadhi is Perfect Peace where these cannot find place.
After emerging from samadhi the remembrance of the state gives rise to these symptoms. In bhakti marga (path of devotion) these are the precursors to samadhi.
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Each one has some method of upasana or japa. If that is pursued in all sincerity with due perseverance, it will automatically lead to the investigation of the Self.
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Can the mind be got at by the mind on looking for it as an object?
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Each one has some method of upasana or japa. If that is pursued in all sincerity with due perseverance, it will automatically lead to the investigation of the Self.
,...
Can the mind be got at by the mind on looking for it as an object?
The source of the mental functions must be sought and gained.
That is the Reality.
One does not know the Self owing to the interference of thoughts.
The Self is realised when thoughts subside.
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M.: “Whenever the turbulent mind wavers, then and there pull it and bring it under control.”
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M.: “Whenever the turbulent mind wavers, then and there pull it and bring it under control.”
(Bh. Gita, VI, 26.)
“Seeing the mind with the mind” (manasa mana alokya), so proclaim the Upanishads.
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Talk 378.
In a conversation with an Andhra visitor, Sri Bhagavan quoted:
Asamsayam mahabaho mano durnigraham chalam Abhyasena tu kaunteya vairagyena cha grhyate — Bh. Gita, Ch. VI, 35
Without doubt, O mighty-armed Hero, the mind is restless, hard to curb. Yet by constant effort, Partha, matched with detachment - curbed it is.
To explain vairagya Sri Bhagavan again quoted:
Sankalpaprabhavan kamams tyaktva sarvan aseshatah Manasaivendriyagramam viniyamya samantatah — (Ch. VI, 24)
Having cast out without remains all longing born of thought for self, Having drawn in by mind alone his team of senses from all sides
- As for practice (abhyasa):
Sanaissanairuparamet buddhya dhritigrhitaya Atmasamstham manah krtva na kinchidapi chintayet — (VI - 25)
By slow approaches let him come to rest, with patient, rock-poised Will; His mind at home in Self hood pure, Let him create no thought at all
Again for jnana:
Yato yato nischarati manas chanchalam asthiram Tatastato niyamyaitad atmanyeva vasam nayet — (VI - 26)
Though over and over the fickle mind, all restlessness, a-wandering goes, Still over and over let his regain control, and poise it back in Self.
158
D.: How did the wrong identity arise?
M.: Due to thoughts. If these thoughts are put an end to, the real Self should shine forth of itself.
D.: How are these thoughts to be ended?
M.: Find out their basis. All of them are strung on the single ‘I-thought’.
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Talk 378.
In a conversation with an Andhra visitor, Sri Bhagavan quoted:
Asamsayam mahabaho mano durnigraham chalam Abhyasena tu kaunteya vairagyena cha grhyate — Bh. Gita, Ch. VI, 35
Without doubt, O mighty-armed Hero, the mind is restless, hard to curb. Yet by constant effort, Partha, matched with detachment - curbed it is.
To explain vairagya Sri Bhagavan again quoted:
Sankalpaprabhavan kamams tyaktva sarvan aseshatah Manasaivendriyagramam viniyamya samantatah — (Ch. VI, 24)
Having cast out without remains all longing born of thought for self, Having drawn in by mind alone his team of senses from all sides
- As for practice (abhyasa):
Sanaissanairuparamet buddhya dhritigrhitaya Atmasamstham manah krtva na kinchidapi chintayet — (VI - 25)
By slow approaches let him come to rest, with patient, rock-poised Will; His mind at home in Self hood pure, Let him create no thought at all
Again for jnana:
Yato yato nischarati manas chanchalam asthiram Tatastato niyamyaitad atmanyeva vasam nayet — (VI - 26)
Though over and over the fickle mind, all restlessness, a-wandering goes, Still over and over let his regain control, and poise it back in Self.
158
D.: How did the wrong identity arise?
M.: Due to thoughts. If these thoughts are put an end to, the real Self should shine forth of itself.
D.: How are these thoughts to be ended?
M.: Find out their basis. All of them are strung on the single ‘I-thought’.
Quell it; all others are quashed.
Moreover there is no use knowing all except the Self.
If the Self is known all others become known. Hence is Self-Realisation the primary and sole duty of man
162
M.: It is also said in the same place that the mind is to be introverted and made to merge into the Self;
162
M.: It is also said in the same place that the mind is to be introverted and made to merge into the Self;
that the practice must be long because it is slow;
and must be continued until it is totally merged in the Self.
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D.: I want prasad, i.e., Grace, for it.
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D.: I want prasad, i.e., Grace, for it.
M.: It is always with you.
All that is required of you is not to confound yourself with the extrovert mind but to abide as the Self.
That is prasad.
The gentleman saluted and retired
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namdev visoba khechar story
The moral of the story is clear. Visions of God have their place below the plane of Self-Realisation.
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D.: Is not dhyana one of the efficient processes for Realisation?
M.: Dhyana is concentration on an object. It fulfills the purpose of keeping away diverse thoughts and fixing the mind on a single thought, which must also disappear before Realisation.
...
...
namdev visoba khechar story
The moral of the story is clear. Visions of God have their place below the plane of Self-Realisation.
...
D.: Is not dhyana one of the efficient processes for Realisation?
M.: Dhyana is concentration on an object. It fulfills the purpose of keeping away diverse thoughts and fixing the mind on a single thought, which must also disappear before Realisation.
But Realisation is nothing new to be acquired. It is already there, but obstructed by a screen of thoughts. All our attempts are directed for lifting this screen and then Realisation is revealed.
If a true seeker is advised to meditate, many may go away satisfied with the advice.
But someone among them may turn round and ask, “Who am I to meditate on an object?”
Such a one must be told to find the Self.
That is the finality.
That is Vichara.
D.: Will vichara alone do in the absence of meditation?
M.: Vichara is the process and the goal also.
‘I Am’ is the goal and the final Reality.
To hold to it with effort is vichara.
When spontaneous and natural it is Realisation.
172
Talk 391.
The same sannyasi visitor, Swami Lokesananda, asked about samadhi.
M.: (1) Holding on to Reality is samadhi.
(2) Holding on to Reality with effort is savikalpa samadhi.
(3) Merging in Reality and remaining unaware of the world is nirvikalpa samadhi.
(4) Merging in Ignorance and remaining unaware of the world is sleep.
(Head bends but not in samadhi).
(5) Remaining in the primal, pure natural state without effort is sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi.
M.: Samadhi means passing beyond dehatma buddhi (I-am-the-body idea) and non-identification of the body with the Self is a foregone conclusion. There are said to be persons who have been immersed in nirvikalpa samadhi for a thousand years or more.
D.: They say that Kundalini must be roused before Realisation and that its awakening makes the body feel hot. Is that so?
M.: The yogis call it Kundalini Sakti. It is the same as vritti of the form of God (Bhagavatakara vritti) of the bhaktas and vritti of the form of Brahman (Brahmakara vritti) of the jnanis.
It must be preliminary to Realisation.
The sensation produced may be said to be hot
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But in fact they create confusion where no confusion need exist.
To understand anything there must be the Self.
The Self is obvious.
Why not remain as the Self?
What need to explain the non-self?
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Take the Vedanta for instance: They say there are fifteen kinds of prana. The student is made to commit the names to memory and also their functions. The air goes up and is called prana; goes down and is called apana; operates the indriyas and is called something. Why all this? Why do you classify, give names and enumerate the functions, and so on? Is it not enough to know that one prana does the whole work?
The antahkarana thinks, desires, wills, reasons, etc., and each function is attributed to one name such as mind, intellect, etc. Has anyone seen the pranas or the antahkaranas? Have they any real
existence? They are mere conceptions. When and where will such conceptions end?
Consider the following: A man sleeps. He says on waking that he slept. The question is asked: ‘Why does he not say in his sleep that he is sleeping?’ The answer is given that he is sunk in the Self and cannot speak, like a man who has dived in water to bring out something from the bottom. The diver cannot speak under water; when he has actually recovered the articles he comes out and speaks. Well, what is the explanation? Being in water, water will flow into his mouth if he were to open the mouth for speaking. Is it not simple? But the philosopher is not content with this simple fact. He explains, saying that fire is the deity presiding over speech; that it is inimical to water and therefore cannot function!
...
Take the Vedanta for instance: They say there are fifteen kinds of prana. The student is made to commit the names to memory and also their functions. The air goes up and is called prana; goes down and is called apana; operates the indriyas and is called something. Why all this? Why do you classify, give names and enumerate the functions, and so on? Is it not enough to know that one prana does the whole work?
The antahkarana thinks, desires, wills, reasons, etc., and each function is attributed to one name such as mind, intellect, etc. Has anyone seen the pranas or the antahkaranas? Have they any real
existence? They are mere conceptions. When and where will such conceptions end?
Consider the following: A man sleeps. He says on waking that he slept. The question is asked: ‘Why does he not say in his sleep that he is sleeping?’ The answer is given that he is sunk in the Self and cannot speak, like a man who has dived in water to bring out something from the bottom. The diver cannot speak under water; when he has actually recovered the articles he comes out and speaks. Well, what is the explanation? Being in water, water will flow into his mouth if he were to open the mouth for speaking. Is it not simple? But the philosopher is not content with this simple fact. He explains, saying that fire is the deity presiding over speech; that it is inimical to water and therefore cannot function!
This is called philosophy and the learners are struggling to learn all this! Is it not a sheer waste of time? Again the Gods are said to preside over the limbs and senses of the individual (vyashti). They are the limbs and senses of Virat (samashti). So they go on explaining Hiranyagarbha, etc. Why should confusion be created and then explained away? Ah! Fortunate is the man who does not involve himself in this maze!
I was indeed fortunate that I never took to it.
Had I taken to it, I would probably be nowhere - always in confusion.
Had I taken to it, I would probably be nowhere - always in confusion.
My purva vasanas (former tendencies) directly took me to the enquiry “Who am I?” It was indeed fortunate!
177
Talk 394.
D.: How is the mind to be stilled?
M.: Looking at the mind with the mind, or fixing the mind in the Self, brings the mind under control of the Self.
D.: Is there any yoga, i.e., a process for it?
M.: Vichara (investigation) alone will do.
179
The single reality is the Self.
To identify oneself with the body and yet to seek happiness is like attempting to cross a river on the back of an alligator.
The body identity is due to extroversion and the wandering of the mind.
To continue in that state will only keep one in an endless tangle and there will be no peace.
Seek your source, merge in the Self and remain all alone.
Rebirth means discontent with the present state, and desire to be born where there will be no discontent.
Births, being of the body, cannot affect the Self. The Self remains over even after the body perishes.
The discontent is due to the wrong identity of the Eternal Self with the perishable body.
The body is a necessary adjunct of the ego.
If the ego is killed the eternal Self is revealed in all its glory.
M.: The yoga marga speaks of the six centres each of which must be reached by practice and transcended until one reaches sahasrara where nectar is found and thus immortality.
The yogis say that one enters into the para nadi which starts from the sacral plexus whereas the jnanis say that the same nadi starts from the heart.
Reconciliation between the seeming]y contradictory statements is effected in the secret doctrine which distinctly states the yogic paranadi is from muladhara and the jnana paranadi is from the Heart.
The truth is that the para nadi should be entered.
By yogic practice one goes down, then rises up, wanders all through until the goal is reached;
by jnana abhyas one settles down directly in the centre.
...
The Yogis attach the highest importance to going up to sahasrara i.e., the brain centre or the thousand-petalled-lotus.
Some yogis say that there are other centres higher up with greater involutions e.g., 100,000 (100) petalled or 100,000,000 (108) petalled ones. Let us omit them for the present. They point out the scriptural statement that the life-current enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that, viyoga (separation) having come about that way, yoga (union) must also be effected in the reverse way.
Therefore we must by yoga practice, gather up the pranas and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga.
The jnanis point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body, its separateness from the Self, and therefore advises effort for reunion by the practice of yoga
...
In fact, the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat, which again functions by light borrowed from another source as admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory.
177
Talk 394.
D.: How is the mind to be stilled?
M.: Looking at the mind with the mind, or fixing the mind in the Self, brings the mind under control of the Self.
D.: Is there any yoga, i.e., a process for it?
M.: Vichara (investigation) alone will do.
179
The single reality is the Self.
To identify oneself with the body and yet to seek happiness is like attempting to cross a river on the back of an alligator.
The body identity is due to extroversion and the wandering of the mind.
To continue in that state will only keep one in an endless tangle and there will be no peace.
Seek your source, merge in the Self and remain all alone.
Rebirth means discontent with the present state, and desire to be born where there will be no discontent.
Births, being of the body, cannot affect the Self. The Self remains over even after the body perishes.
The discontent is due to the wrong identity of the Eternal Self with the perishable body.
The body is a necessary adjunct of the ego.
If the ego is killed the eternal Self is revealed in all its glory.
M.: The yoga marga speaks of the six centres each of which must be reached by practice and transcended until one reaches sahasrara where nectar is found and thus immortality.
The yogis say that one enters into the para nadi which starts from the sacral plexus whereas the jnanis say that the same nadi starts from the heart.
Reconciliation between the seeming]y contradictory statements is effected in the secret doctrine which distinctly states the yogic paranadi is from muladhara and the jnana paranadi is from the Heart.
The truth is that the para nadi should be entered.
By yogic practice one goes down, then rises up, wanders all through until the goal is reached;
by jnana abhyas one settles down directly in the centre.
...
The Yogis attach the highest importance to going up to sahasrara i.e., the brain centre or the thousand-petalled-lotus.
Some yogis say that there are other centres higher up with greater involutions e.g., 100,000 (100) petalled or 100,000,000 (108) petalled ones. Let us omit them for the present. They point out the scriptural statement that the life-current enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that, viyoga (separation) having come about that way, yoga (union) must also be effected in the reverse way.
Therefore we must by yoga practice, gather up the pranas and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga.
The jnanis point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body, its separateness from the Self, and therefore advises effort for reunion by the practice of yoga
...
In fact, the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat, which again functions by light borrowed from another source as admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory.
The jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its native source.
Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed resources.
Just as an iron ball comes into being separate from the mass of iron, gets fiery, in fire, later cools down giving up the fire, but must again be made fiery to reunite with the original mass, so also the cause of separation must also form the factor of reunion
Again if there is an image reflected there must be a source and also accessories like the Sun and a pot of water for reflection.
Again if there is an image reflected there must be a source and also accessories like the Sun and a pot of water for reflection.
To do away with the reflection either the surface is covered up
corresponding to reaching the fontanelle according to the yogis
or the water is drained away which is called tapas.
(Tapo Brahmeti - tapas is Brahman).
That is to say, the thoughts or the brain activities are made to cease.
(Tapo Brahmeti - tapas is Brahman).
That is to say, the thoughts or the brain activities are made to cease.
This is jnana-marga.
All these are however on the assumption that the jiva is separate from the Self or Brahman. But are we separate? “No”, says the jnani.
The ego is simply wrong identity of the Self with the non-self, as in the case of a colourless crystal and its coloured background.
All these are however on the assumption that the jiva is separate from the Self or Brahman. But are we separate? “No”, says the jnani.
The ego is simply wrong identity of the Self with the non-self, as in the case of a colourless crystal and its coloured background.
The crystal though colourless appears red because of its background.
If the background is removed the crystal shines in its original purity. So it is with the Self and the antahkaranas
Still again the illustration is not quite appropriate. For the ego has its source from the Self and is not separate like the background from the crystal. Having its source from the Self, the ego must only be retraced in order that it might merge in its source. The centre of the ego and its core is called the Heart, the same as the Self.
...
A gentleman asked if the yogis also reach the anahata and thus realise the Heart-centre as is done by the jnanis but in a different way.
M.: Anahata is not the same as the Heart-centre.
If the background is removed the crystal shines in its original purity. So it is with the Self and the antahkaranas
Still again the illustration is not quite appropriate. For the ego has its source from the Self and is not separate like the background from the crystal. Having its source from the Self, the ego must only be retraced in order that it might merge in its source. The centre of the ego and its core is called the Heart, the same as the Self.
...
A gentleman asked if the yogis also reach the anahata and thus realise the Heart-centre as is done by the jnanis but in a different way.
M.: Anahata is not the same as the Heart-centre.
If so, why should they wander further on to Sahasrara?
Moreover, the question arises because of the sense of separateness persisting in us. We are never away from the Heart-centre. Before reaching anahata or after passing it, one is only in the centre. Whether one understands it or not, one is not away from the centre. Practice of yoga or vichara is done, always remaining in the centre only.
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